A general question for sole practicioners ...

A general question for sole practicioners ...

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A general question for sole practicioners ...

At what stage did you bring in your first employee? Ie when did you think you cannot cope alone?

I have about 40 clients and feel that I am spending lot of time processing and doing admin etc. I do not have much free time and I feel stressed and tired.

Any advice? Thanks

Replies (31)

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By Roland195
19th Jul 2012 16:40

Employees will not necessarily make things better

Aside from the various employment law related issues, having to commit to a salary may cause you more worry than before.

 

 

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By Steve McQueen
19th Jul 2012 17:00

My experience...

... would suggest that £50k of GRF and things start to creek IF you are still going for growth.

If you need do no more marketing and are prepared to WORK (that is evenings and weekends and little holiday) and you invest in decent IT you can probably stretch this to around £100k.

Above that, I know of no one who stays absolutely alone.

(For the record, I employed from day 1 when I had £0 GRF so that I could really go for growth. I did circa £100k year 1 and circa £250k year 2... and around £3million in year 5)

Steve

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By Moonbeam
19th Jul 2012 17:01

Suddenly you may have too much time

It's such a fine line knowing when you can safely employ someone. The worst bit is that work declines and you then have to make the employee redundant. After all a salary can be a big fixed cost what with holidays and notice pay, and training time to get them up to speed.

I'd say 40 tax clients with not much book-keeping is not enough to justify taking someone on but if there is a lot of book-keeping then you could consider a part-time person. I can think of others on Aweb who manage a lot more clients than this single handed, but you are not a robot and it's your business, not theirs.

Can you buy some software to help you sharpen up the systems. I've been horrified myself at the amount of admin required for tax work and know I could be dealing with it all 5 times faster if I set it up better.

 

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Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
19th Jul 2012 17:04

Depends

It depends on you and what you want to do.

I'm a sole practitioner. Mrs KA works part time 2 days a week and I subcontract out a small amount of work to 2 accountants/bookkeepers.

It was just me up until around six months ago when I had around 40-45 clients (similar to you).

I work very long hours at the moment as I'm busy trying to combine:

1. Growing my practice - seeing new prospects, sending out proposals, doing engagement letters, networking etc.

2. Allocating and reviewing work where necessary.

3. Doing all of the filing of tax returns and accounts.

4. Implementing and improving procedures.

There is by its very nature more to do if your business is growing, but what do you want it to be?

Are you happy being a sole practitioner with 40 ish clients or do you want to get bigger and ultimately take on staff?

If you stay at around 40 clients I would expect to see your efficiency to improve (as you get to know your clients better) and the amount of admin to reduce.

If you intend to grow further I would recommend looking to use subcontractors first.

I have no intention of employing anyone in the near future, using good quality, reliable and honest subcontractors works very well for me.

I have approx 75 clients (or maybe around 110 depending on how you count them - see 'clients' thread).

I'm looking to grow bigger and can do that with the structure I have in place at the moment,

Long hours isn't a problem for me at the moment as I have a very supportive family and its for a specific purpose. I think I'll always work hard but not as hard as I am at the moment.

 

 

 

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Chris M
By mr. mischief
19th Jul 2012 17:07

I don't understand

I have over 100 clients with a total of 44 limited companies between them and I've never felt less stressed!  I average 2 rounds of golf a week though the rain has restricted this.  In winter I get in about 20 miles of fell running and 5 miles of swimming a week no problem.  I take my kids to school a few times a month, take my daughter to swim club twice a week an generally spend a lot more time with my family than I did before setting up.

On my heavier processing jobs I have partnered with a local book-keeper.  She's probably better at book-keeping than me anyway if I am honest!  So that takes away some of the workload without the legal responsibility and expense of hiring someone.  On most of these clients I build her costs into my standing orders so she has no credit risk and the client gets one bill.

I can probably handle another 30 or so clients but don't think I'll bother going that far.  What I am doing is getting tougher with those ones who mess around, so starting about a year ago and continuing to today and beyond the average level of enjoyment in dealing with my clients is increasing every month.

 

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Replying to 4uvak:
Man of Kent
By Kent accountant
19th Jul 2012 17:11

Size of clients, type of work and time in practice

mr. mischief wrote:

I have over 100 clients with a total of 44 limited companies between them and I've never felt less stressed!

 

I think number of clients can be deceptive, its really the amount of work, level of fees and time in practice which are more relevant.

Plus if you've been in practice 12 months plus you do become more efficient (repeat work, less engagement admin etc). 

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By Tosie
19th Jul 2012 17:37

clue in question

I feel tired and stressed, this means to me that it is time to take somebody on.Regardless of how others manage.

Next question who ? I suggest a mature clerk maybe somebody a generation ago would have been a s ecretary. Somebody to answer the phone and a bit of data input.You will only need a few hours a week and when you get the admin work in order you start to see were you are going. And it is nice for somebody to make you a cup of tea from time to time and tell you that client was a pita and that you are doing a great job.

Don't get fed up we have all felt the same as you do now.

As you are feeling stressed try not to take book-keeping or start ups

they are both time consuming.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
19th Jul 2012 17:39

.

I would agree with Steve, about £50k of fees and its about the max you can do on your own without killing yourself but it depends on growth. £50k of fees in second year practice is a lot more work than £50k of fees in a 5 year old practice given they will all be new clients or second year clients which need more time and attention.

If going for fast growth then the sooner your bring in no.2 the better as it gives more time for  development of the business.

Just start with a part-timer and pay for the hours worked, they can be a contractor if you would prefer. 

From experience get the most highly skilled person you can afford, it will pay longer term.

 

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By ShirleyM
19th Jul 2012 18:11

Admin

If I were starting again I would make my first employee an admin person. It is amazing how much pressure (and work) they can take away from you, without costing a fortune, or risking they will pinch your clients when they set up for themselves.

A technical person may balk at being asked to do a lot of admin and it can turn out where you are doing the admin and paying someone else a very good wage to do the accounts/tax. 

You can use freelancers for accounts work if you need help with the technical work, but you really need an employed admin person who knows your business, your procedures, and your clients.

My super duper admin lady does everything except accounts/tax, but she sets the clients up on the tax software, does all the correspondence, prints the accounts/tax, makes appointments, invoicing, monitoring workflow, banking, simple bookkeeping, answers the phone, deals with clients who are dropping off records ...,. you name it! She is brilliant :)

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By Jimess
19th Jul 2012 18:42

Taking on people

I took my first employee on about a year after I started and started off with a zero hours contract so that she only worked when I really needed the extra pair of hands.  That gradually built up and I now have two part time people with different skills and capabilities.  Taking on employees can sometimes be difficult - especially if you are a lone wolf - letting go of the work can be a bit tricky.  Getting the right person is vital.  The wrong personality/skill set can cost you dearly. 

Shirley M you have a gem there - such employees are hard to find and keep.  I have a great tax lady who manages my personal tax clients brilliantly and I feel so lucky to have such a person working with me.

 

  

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
20th Jul 2012 01:40

Do you "need" to grow?

Having been there and now in planned shrink mode I wish I'd asked myself the same question when I started taking people on.  

The discussions above (and most other places) revolve around the top line (fees) but what if say £50K of fees, less perhaps £6K of expenses is actually enough for you to live on and have a good life balance?  Will adding £50K of fees & £30K of salaries/costs so increasing your bottom line before tax by £20K be worth the pressure of running a bigger business and being responsible for your 1-2 members of staff?  Don't kid yourself, it is rare to make yourself significantly redundant enough, to thus enjoy life a bit more, by taking on staff and growing the business.

I know from my own situation in the past that when things got tough and I/we felt I/we couldn't cope the logical thing was to find more bodies to carry the load but all it seemed to do was compound the problem of poor business management.  How about losing fees by dropping worthless clients and taking time out to look at how you do things, saving costs & time.  I have lost over half my fee income in the past 5 years and am better off financially than I was then and am able to spend far more time not working.

Obviously people do "go for growth" because they need to and that may be the case above but all so often people go for growth because that's what is expected, bit like buying the 5BR detached when your 3BR semi is perfectly adequate.

Having said that I miss having a team to run & develop.  Running a buzzy business with everyone pulling in the same direction is hugely satisfying, even if your pay stagnates. But it's that first step that is so important, if your business is a bit chaotic and fire fighting in nature, adding another body without changing the model is the last thing you want to do.

My own "golden rule" for who next to take on is what do I enjoy doing and what don't I enjoy doing then hiring someone (sub-con or employee) who loved & hated the opposites.

 

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By frustratedwithhmrc
20th Jul 2012 07:03

Never felt the need to take on anyone else

It's my business and it is operated by me, for me. Over the years business has ebbed-and-flowed, usually according to whether we have a credit bubble or not. The most I've ever done is agreed to undertake some outsourcing with another local accountant who specialises in doing work with taxi firms and building contractors.

I also have a sub-contracting arrangement with two bookkeepers who do preparatory work and keep clients ticking over.

The difficulty with employing people is two-fold, one is that you need to undertake all of the employment hassle (not just the PAYE), but also that you need to keep them fully occupied 40-hours per week, year-in-year-out.

I've heard horror stories of accountants working on low / no salary, just so they can keep making the weekly / monthly salary payments to an employee that, because of the recession, the business can no longer afford, but the owner can't make redundant because of guilt.

I am not disparaging those who employ others, but if you haven't got the cajones to fire someone if they are no good or make them redundant / lay them of during a downturn, then you shouldn't be hiring them in the first place.

Equally, partnerships are a good idea in principle, but often don't work out in practice due to different skill sets, work ethics and motivations.

Keeping things as business-to-business type relationships means everyone knows exactly where they stand.

This is why I am and will remain a sole practitioner until the day I retire permanently.

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Replying to Sunshine111:
Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
20th Jul 2012 13:06

I love being an employer

frustratedwithhmrc wrote:

The difficulty with employing people is [..] that you need to keep them fully occupied 40-hours per week, year-in-year-out

Nope, not at all.

I have 3 members of staff on zero hours contracts. In practice, they work 8-20 hours per week for me, all the time, but with no commitment either way. This meant that as I grew the business, I wasn't committed to a regular salary, and as part time people and mums who wanted flexible working hours, this worked perfectly for all involved. Now, they do have minimum hours in their contracts but regularly exceed this, which has become the norm.

I love it. I would be far too stressed on my own and couldn't earn nearly as much without them.

Definitely look to take on an admin person first - it's amazing how much time you can save.

Ultimately it's whether you want to grow a business, or whether you're happy working for yourself and keeping your turnover self-limiting at a level you're happy with.

Don't be put off with horror stories of PAYE compliance - it's not that hard to get it right and as long as you choose the right people (and follow your instincts, unless you're a bad judge of character!) you should be fine.

I can't advise at what level to take staff on because I probably took them on earlier than most - I've just looked back and it was on a turnover of £50k but with 2 partners, and at that point we took on an admin person and a very part time bookkeeper. It's now just me on my own (much better, I don't recommend a partner!).

My staff are bloomin' fabulous and I love them to bits.

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By petersaxton
20th Jul 2012 07:12

Paul and Frustrated

I totally agree with what both of you say.

I'm struggling to do the work now but I won't try to solve the problem by taking people on. I just don't want the hassle or responsibility.

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Out of my mind
By runningmate
20th Jul 2012 08:52

Another vote for planned shrinkage!

My practice consists - quite literally - of one man and a (very friendly) dog. It operates from a spare bedroom in my house.

One year I did about £120k in fees - never again!  This year I am aiming for about £50k. That way I get to spend more time walking the dog.

RM

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
20th Jul 2012 08:59

But.....

The downside in the "looking after number 1" self employment is that we as a country have to have employment, we can't all be self employed. There is an underclass of young people out there with huge potential and enthusiasm who are being wasted or used as semi-slave labour.

Probably 30% of my compliance work is still undertaken by an ex-employee who has set up her own business and, if I needed to grow the business again, I'd have no hesitation in taking on people but at the right time, ie months before you are desparate for them and with a proper application and interview process.

Reading fwh's posting it suddenly struck me that I have rarely had employment problems whilst being a sole practitioner, it was during years of working with partners that the problems arose where their ethos tended to be "I'm boss, you're not, do it" and guess who had to manage, fire & make redundant?

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By Steve McQueen
20th Jul 2012 09:09

Agree with Paul, Frustrated, Peter and runningmate

Although I said what I did when I started, it did not add what I would do now, which is, I would not seek growth above and beyond the £50k GRF and would cull if I crept above this. The model would be me working from home 2-3 days a week and very much a one man band.

Never again would I seek to do what I did.

I was young (28 when I started) and very naïve and I thought the answers to life, the universe and everything lay in founding and running a huge business with dozens of staff from prestigious city centre offices.

As Paul says, what I got instead was huge debt, a continual headache and fat.

Yes, I built capital value but my elephant was actually quite hard to sell (too big; too small) and I never really made the money from it that I should as I was constantly playing catch up on my working capital requirement and so could never take anything (I was the lowest paid qualified in my place)

Before you seek growth ask what it’s for. If it’s ‘cause you want to “do better stuff, the sort of stuff that the big boys do" your quality of life will be much better if you chase a partnership in that sort of organization than if you try to build it yourself.

Steve

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By petersaxton
20th Jul 2012 09:22

The other other side

I don't think there's anything wrong with people wanting to take on employees. This gives the opportunity to make a lot of money and also choose your role and ensure that employees have good training and experience.

"There is an underclass of young people out there with huge potential and enthusiasm who are being wasted or used as semi-slave labour."

Unfortunately, because of the failings of our education system they need to be properly educated. I have seen A level exam papers that are similar to the O levels that I took in the late 60s. My step daughter, who is quite good at dealing with people and getting things done at work, has to use a calculator to work out 10% and her history homework was always drawing street scenes and she told me that she doesn't know when the Battle of Hastings was because they "didn't do dates at school".

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
20th Jul 2012 09:31

Peter how about young people with 1st class degrees?

Two of my clients have taken advantage of "interns" they get swamped with applications for just a 6 month contract at just above NMW.  I've met several and it's dreadful that many may just run out of steam in their job searching and may never know full-time valuable employment.  I've also met younger state educated people in my area who make up for not great academic results with a hunger to learn and get stuck in, I'd love to be able to employ them, but they are even more likely to be left behind.

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Replying to Tornado:
By petersaxton
20th Jul 2012 10:38

Paul

Paul Scholes wrote:

Two of my clients have taken advantage of "interns" they get swamped with applications for just a 6 month contract at just above NMW.  I've met several and it's dreadful that many may just run out of steam in their job searching and may never know full-time valuable employment.  I've also met younger state educated people in my area who make up for not great academic results with a hunger to learn and get stuck in, I'd love to be able to employ them, but they are even more likely to be left behind.

Paul, of course there are people out there but it's not for me because I don't think I can take on much more work and don't want to take on anybody at my age. I also don't want to employ somebody who is going to leave after six months.

I've also heard too many horror stories where accountants have to spend more time sorting out problems than the work they would have to do if they did it themselves. I would certainly go for an older bookkeeper any time.

On another point. A client of mine had two employees and, at slightly different times, they both went on maternity leave. They had to get and train temporary workers and then the original employees decided not to come back after a year. I think the maternity/paternity rules should only apply to companies with sufficient employees to move people around.

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Replying to Constantly Confused:
By ChrisScullard
20th Jul 2012 11:11

Maternity rules

petersaxton wrote:

On another point. A client of mine had two employees and, at slightly different times, they both went on maternity leave. They had to get and train temporary workers and then the original employees decided not to come back after a year. I think the maternity/paternity rules should only apply to companies with sufficient employees to move people around.

I could not agree more with this

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By ChrisScullard
20th Jul 2012 10:24

I'm getting to a similar position to the OP, in that I'm starting to feel the pressure of delivering the work on time, every time to my clients.  Maybe it doesn't help that I do a lot of monthly work (I always try to point out the benefits of having regular accounts and analysis of the figures, a budget/business plan and measuring performance against it).

Ultimately I have to be able to pay myself a certain amount per month to pay the household bills, etc.  I've worked out that to be able to do that, have the lifestyle I want, and move into an office (working at home with a 24 month old and 3 month old is not ideal) I need to bill around £45k per year.  So, even if I have to work every hour god sends, I simply can't afford to employ someone while fees are below this level

I will look to find an admin/bookkeeping subbie when I go above this.  I hope to find one of the mums from my daughter's nursery who a) knows what they're doing and b) is happy to do a few hours here and there - i.e.: be flexible - to help out when I go above that.  I'm also interested in looking at an apprentice.  A young, bright, hungry 'kid' who can do a couple of days week while at college, and then move them on to AAT or similar

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
20th Jul 2012 13:08

I love being an employer
frustratedwithhmrc wrote:

The difficulty with employing people is [..] that you need to keep them fully occupied 40-hours per week, year-in-year-out

Nope, not at all.

I have 3 members of staff on zero hours contracts. In practice, they work 8-20 hours per week for me, all the time, but with no commitment either way. This meant that as I grew the business, I wasn't committed to a regular salary, and as part time people and mums who wanted flexible working hours, this worked perfectly for all involved. Now, they do have minimum hours in their contracts but regularly exceed this, which has become the norm.

I love it. I would be far too stressed on my own and couldn't earn nearly as much without them.

Definitely look to take on an admin person first - it's amazing how much time you can save.

Ultimately it's whether you want to grow a business, or whether you're happy working for yourself and keeping your turnover self-limiting at a level you're happy with.

Don't be put off with horror stories of PAYE compliance - it's not that hard to get it right and as long as you choose the right people (and follow your instincts, unless you're a bad judge of character!) you should be fine.

I can't advise at what level to take staff on because I probably took them on earlier than most - I've just looked back and it was on a turnover of £50k but with 2 partners, and at that point we took on an admin person and a very part time bookkeeper. It's now just me on my own (much better, I don't recommend a partner!).

My staff are bloomin' fabulous and I love them to bits.

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By Moonbeam
20th Jul 2012 13:25

Zero Hours contracts

Hello to Monsoon - very glad to see you back on Aweb - I've missed you!

I'd like to know more about a zero hours contract. Although you in effect guarantee a minimum level of hours now, presumably you didn't start that way? How did you cope with the initial training and then monitoring of the work until your people got up to speed?

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By mn2taxhbj
20th Jul 2012 13:40

Apprenticeships

Just a thought but the ATT (and CIOT) are starting to offer apprenticeships

 

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By tracybbs
20th Jul 2012 13:55

You could use a freelancer

for bookkeeping and office support, you could then pay for only the times when you need extra help, you will pay a higher hourly rate probably but you would save that in payroll costs, employee holiday, sick pay etc.

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By User deleted
20th Jul 2012 14:03

I certainly concur ...

... about admin being the key area, it takes longer to set up the file up than it does to do the actaul job on many clients!

Certainly, for a tax return!

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
20th Jul 2012 17:59

:)

Moonbeam wrote:

Hello to Monsoon - very glad to see you back on Aweb - I've missed you!

I'd like to know more about a zero hours contract. Although you in effect guarantee a minimum level of hours now, presumably you didn't start that way? How did you cope with the initial training and then monitoring of the work until your people got up to speed?

 

Aww, thanks Moonbeam :)

 

That's right, we started with a guaranteed zero hours. It works both ways - the employee guarantees to provide zero hours, so there is no obligation on either part.

It was 2009 so I honestly can't remember what it was like. I think you just cope and get on with it. Start with a few bits then build up to more.  Yes, it takes more time initially, but it is so worth it. I guess that's one of the advantages to doing it before having a gazillion clients.

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By Jason Dormer
20th Jul 2012 18:32

aadil

Before making the decision on whether to employ or not ask yourself the following questions:

1. What is your objective for your practice?  do you want growth, lifesyle business, to offer worthwhile employment opportunities, to do the work yourself, etc.  If you haven't got a business plan then do one.

2. If you were to employ, in what capacity would you engage the employee, admin or fee earning work? Would you spend time developing the employee and getting their complete buy in to your objectives and way of working?

3. Would the increase in cost of employment be saved by decreasing your exisiting client base and weeding out the clients that cost you either in time, money, energy or stress?

4. What is the opportunity cost of staying as you are?  What areas of your business are not being given the attention they deserve as you are in full time operational work mode?

5. Why are you time poor and stressed?  Do you underprice your services, underestimate work involved per client, take on underserving clients, not manage your clients, have high debtor days, write off too much time, not scope engagements sufficiently?

6.Can you make better use of technology to systemise your business and increase efficiency?

7. Is your marketing targetting the right type of client for you or are you trying to be all things to all people.

8. Do you take on all clients that come along, even if they are not right for you (and vice versa)

Have an honest assessment, decide how to make the change that you obviously need for your own well being, and then keep to that decision and make it happen.

The more that you procrastinate the more you will feel the stress, listen to advice on here but at the end of the day it's your business, your health, and your decision. Make the decision, make it happen, and you will feel all the better for it, and prosper.

Good luck.

 

 

 

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Replying to Ruddles:
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By Lancsboy2
20th Jul 2012 22:22

depends on your personal objectives

for me the decision to employ staff was a given from day #1.  i started with a FT admin person who is now trained to do basic book-keeping and generally look after the office. i wanted to project an image of a larger business from day #1 - so i had a virtual PA answering the phone, and an office with 5 desks ... and just me and my admin!  i put myself under pressure - deliberately - to grow aggressively for the first 2 years of the practice ... with no wage for me in year 1, and a subsistence wage for year 2.  we are now in month #1 of year #3 and i've started paying myself a decent wage and we are now over the initial period of massive growth and investing in the office / furniture / computers / phones / stationary / software / and not forgetting ... MARKETING!

 

i have a definite plan to completely remove myself from day-to-day accounts & tax work.  i still have work to do, but this time next year hopefully i won't be doing any "work".  i see the major benefit of self-employment to be able to self-direct ... i.e. do what i want to do more of, and less of what i dont.  i hate payroll, vat work, ltd co, sole traders ... actually, come to think of it, pretty much all actual accounts work LOL.  the bit i like is meeting clients, advising, acting as a sounding board, providing the 'added value' that they want ... and the staff do the actual work.  

 

i am lucky in that my #1 is an ACA & a CTA (he's not cheap, mind!), and is able to run the show pretty much, with 3 supporting AAT / trainee-ACCA / admin-boo-keeper person ... and it works for us both.  he;s less keen on the client facing side, so we complement each other well.  

 

it really depends what you want from your practice - a subject i've asked the good people of aweb here: 

https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/anyanswers/question/how-big-do-you-want-your-practice-be

we are now approaching the £300k GRF level that i had in mind ... but i'm thinking that £280k is about what we can manage on current staffing, and i'm not sure i want any more than the 4 staff i have already.  steve, paul scholes & others make great points about the 'contribution to bottom line' of more clients, more staff etc.  my personal income target is £150k after all costs ... and by end 2012 we'll be there-ish so i'm really thinking that more staff & a bigger business is incrementally not going to be worth the extra risk and costs.  whereas my mate thinks we have a goldmine niche & thinks i'm lacking ambition to stop growing.  mind you, he's a workaholic. 

 

one point i picked up on (steve) ... lack of money due to constant re-investment!  blimey ... i know all about that, but just recently we have built a decent cash pot. it feels very nice to not having money flowing out just as fast as it flows in ... a feeling i can get used to!

 

hopefully Tom7000 will be along soon to give us a view from someone in the £1m GRF club ... LOL

 

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By makingiteasynow
20th Jul 2012 22:24

Don't do what someone else can do..

..is my philosophy, unless you love doing it.

I would start by identifying the easiest work that can be done by a reasonably unskilled part time worker. Virtual PAs and subcontract bookkeepers are everywhere.

Start small - maybe 10 hours a week and build from there. 

Test for quality and reliability first.

Systemise the process, and the deliverables.

How will you do quality control.

The possibilities are endless. And you will be left with good quality income doing what you love - (i hope its accounting).

Plan, plan, plan.

Cheers

G

By the way - what would you say to a client who presented you with the same problem? That may be the only answer you need.

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