This is possibly the wrong forum to be asking this but hey I'm already a member so let's see if anyone can help!
Basically as I understand it, now I work somewhat in the payroll industry, is that apprentices should be protected from redundancy.
Back in 2007 I was made redundant halfway through a hairdressing apprenticeship due to supposed lack of work. I got no redundancy pay as I'd been there less than 2 years. I was able to complete my training but it was unpaid so it was not technically a continuation of my apprenticeship as it was purely training and no paid work. It was also at a salon in London (I'm based in Brighton) so I spent a HUGE chunk of my miniscule savings on train tickets.
I didn't query it at the time as I was a stupid 17 y/old!
Now I have some payroll experience I'm wondering if my then employer actually broke the law (breach of contract?) when he made me redundant back then? And if he did if there is anything I can do about it now? Is there a time limit for such things? Or should I just put it down to experience and move on..?
Many thanks for your help in advance.
Replies (34)
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I'm no expert - but I think you get get rid of an apprentice at any time, with the obvious discrimination exceptions.
At the end of an apprenticeship, the 'employer' has a choice to employ the apprentice, or let them go.
I could be wrong though.
"You can’t usually make an apprentice redundant simply because you can’t afford to pay them, eg if your company runs out of work. This is because you have a contract to train them.
You should get legal advice if you think you might have to make an apprentice redundant or want to end the apprenticeship early for another reason."
Source: https://www.gov.uk/take-on-an-apprentice/pay-and-conditions-for-apprentices
Did they make you redundant or merely terminate your employment? Given absence of redundancy pay what documentation do you have that evidences the termination of your employment was redundancy?
Also attached article clearly implies apprentices can be made redundant, as does attached SI, so what evidence do you have that they cannot be made redundant given the legislation addresses the issue of them being made redundant vis a vis completion of their training?
http://traineeships.apprenticeships.org.uk/partners/policy/redundancy.aspx
See also:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2012/1199/made
Caution, I , like most who post on here am not a solicitor and certainly do not often deal with this sort of issue so your question would likely be better answered on a different discussion forum.
As for others, caveat that I have no direct legal knowledge.
It must be possible for apprentices to be made redundant. Otherwise a business that was closing down (making everyone redundant) would have to keep open to pay any apprentices they have.
I suspect that the protection is that they must be considered LAST for redundancy. (i.e. that when redundancies have to be made, an apprentice position is the only possible choice. This would protect them from just being chucked out as easy/cheap redundancy choices.). If the redundancy in this case was a reduction in the number of apprentices the company used, then that could well apply. (i.e. the redundancy affected junior level employees, and all junior level employees were apprentices. A non-apprentice junior would have to have gone first had there been one)
Even if not out of time you would also need to be certain any legislation/guidance you now find was extant and operative in 2007, legislation tends not, in the main, to be retrospective, so you would need clarity even if time bar did not apply.
Yes but however good a claim you might have had in 2007 you are way too late to think about bringing a claim nine years later.
I'm not an expert either, but the fact that he got rid of you means that there's one less hairdresser in the world so he should be congratulated.
He should then be incapacitated so there's a further one less hairdresser in the world.
Just remember ,per Douglas Adams., that the hairdressers et al from the B Ark are the founding citizens of Earth.
Also remember what the Management Consultants (which I suspect is shorthand from DA to include accountants) suggest is done to the forests, people in glass houses......
"Ford licked his lips.
"Yes," he said, "All those dead telephone sanitizers and account executives, you know, down in the hold."
The Captain stared at him. Suddenly he threw back his head and laughed.
"Oh they're not dead," he said, "Good Lord no, no they're frozen. They're going to be revived."
Ford did something he very rarely did. He blinked.
Arthur seemed to come out of a trance.
"You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said."
Enjoy, the TV series despite the shaky sets and the very limited effects (Zaphod's head) it is miles ahead of the film which I though was really poor.
Over the years I have amassed the books, the first two books on vinyl, the DVD set re the TV series and the complete radio broadcasts box set on CD; this latter is my background of choice when sitting in the study at home writing up client books , especially when I barely need to think about the work and can enjoy the broadcast.
I'm not sure of the correct answer to your question but I would contact ACAS and ask for their advice which is free and impartial. The phone number is 0300 123 1100.
Slightly left field thought
No idea of time limits re intimation post event, and this is re Scotland not England (though I expect similar protection exists down South), but is there any scope to rely on something like:
Age of Legal Capacity (Scotland) Act 1991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Legal_Capacity_(Scotland)_Act_1991
one interesting quote from the wiki:
"From age 16 a person has full legal capacity to enter into any form of agreement. This subject to protection for younger persons by means of a right (under section 3) while under the age of 21, to have a contract made between the ages of 16 and 18 set aside as a "prejudicial transaction". The test is whether a reasonably prudent adult would not have entered into such a contract, and the person has been prejudiced by entering into that contract. Under section 4 a contract may be approved in advance by a court, in which case it cannot later be reduced. Contracts entered into in the course of the young person's business, or where they misrepresented their age also cannot be reduced."
I suspect not, however when we required to execute a compromise agreement with an employee we were advised by our solicitors to pay to ensure the other party had received legal advice.
Did your former employer do similar, if not you may want to see if there is any scope to open up the time limits under the above sort of legislation?
Like everyone else, I haven't a scooby about the precise law. I do, however, like that you have found your vocation and wish you well. Perhaps your scoundrel of an employer did you a favour but I trust they have had their comeuppance. If not, they will. Move on and be happy; you are the winner.
I have been waiting years for a question on the forum that I can actually answer better than others........
My wait continues!