I flew through the ATT and think I would make a good dent on the CTA if I did it (I test well). But it is way too expensive and would be largely composed of things I would rarely come across, so would be a waste of time professionally.
But I want to learn new things, so is there some middle ground exam I could do?
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Replies (24)
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CTA
If you do the advisory papers most appropriate to you, CTA won't be "largely composed of things you would rarely come across". There will be a few, but for the most part, it will fill in the blanks that you don't yet realise are blanks. It's actually quite a frightening experience when you realise just how much you don't know.
Employer
George as always is correct.
Also, I would say get your employer to pay. If it furthers your career with them then they should be supportive of it. Alternatively, find a new employer who is willing to offer a training package and more interesting post-qualification future.
employers
George as always is correct.
Also, I would say get your employer to pay. If it furthers your career with them then they should be supportive of it. Alternatively, find a new employer who is willing to offer a training package and more interesting post-qualification future.
a pity i find very few employers show the desire to invest that cost; they all want to reap the rewards of high level performance first and if exams get in the way you are in the way too
Thanks
My employer wouldn't want to pay for me to do the CTA, we aren't big enough for them to justify me being that good at tax.
I am seriously considering buying the CTA textbooks (surely not all that much?) and learning it myself 'on the cheap', though that's how I started on the ATT and decided it was within my means, so I ended up doing the exams.
I don't care for the prestige of having yet more letters after my name, it was nice at first but the lustre of having such a stupidly long post-name is fading for me, I just want the knowledge and the only way things stick for me is if I do them exam style (with the associated 'Need to know this/why am I so stupid/now it's second nature').
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go for the CTA if you get the chance. you wont regret it. whilst you are not bothered just now by the letters after the name, you never know when it will matter. it opens your eyes to the sheer volume of legislation, HMRC guidance, best practice and case law.
Do it. Just do it.
I'm 3 exams down in my ATT, and found the last exam pretty straight forward. I'm certain that I will transfer my ATT student membership over to CIOT once I pass my last exam.
George said:
"it will fill in the blanks that you don't yet realise are blanks. It's actually quite a frightening experience when you realise just how much you don't know."
This is my experience with ATT! I'm not convinced that lots of CTA will be largely irrelevant. I can't wait to learn more (just need to pass the e-assessments on law and ethics first, yuck).
As an AAT in practice, I've got no way of becoming ACCA/ACA so the only chartered option open to me is CTA. That's not why I'm doing it (though having a C after my name after years of thinking I never would is appealing), it's more for the knowledge - and the challenge. I've realised it's something I am able to do, and so I want to do it.
I've self-studied ATT - buying the text books and putting myself in for exams. I'm going to do the same for CTA. Even if I never sit the exams for whatever reason (I plan to), I'm sure the study will expand my knowledge tremendously, and be invaluable. From that point of view, buying the textbooks is money well spent.
I actually use my ATT text books as reference material at work, because it explains things in a simple way (what with it being a tutorial book and all) which makes it much easier when I need to look up something I don't keep in my head. I'm sure the CTA books will be even better.
Sorry, have waffled on about me and my studies, but hopefully have helped a bit.
In answer to your actual question, no, I don't think there is a middle ground qual between ATT and CTA. Just go for the CTA - do it! :)
Don't want to hijack this thread but....
is the ATT worth doing prior to CTA if you have sat advanced tax at ACCA, just wondering.
MtF
My 2 pence
is the ATT worth doing prior to CTA if you have sat advanced tax at ACCA, just wondering.
MtF
Yes, it is, I'm ACCA too and given how much 'new' material I covered in the ATT compared to the ACCA tax papers I think it would make the CTA a much easier step.
Or don't do the ATT, just read the sylabus and make sure you know it, I passed the ACCA years ago, maybe things have changed :)
I decided against this
I did think a lot about ATT and CIOT. I just have had enough of studying. When I get some time, I want to relax. The thought of opening up a tax book to study has lost its appeal. I rather spend time on marketing, systemisation etc.
It could be my age, I now want to go easy on myself.
To those who study, great. It shows real dedication. I have lost this when it comes to studying.
dedication
[quote=FirstTab]
I did think a lot about ATT and CIOT. I just have had enough of studying. When I get some time, I want to relax. The thought of opening up a tax book to study has lost its appeal. I rather spend time on marketing, systemisation etc.
It could be my age, I now want to go easy on myself.
To those who study, great. It shows real dedication. I have lost this when it comes to studying
I show my dedication to my clients and earn fees
Tolleys Online Academy
This is an online study course which covers each CTA module. They are not only available to students - I signed up and did a couple as a refresher. There are internal exams along the way to make sure you have grasped the concepts and if you decide to go on and do the exams they will have given you a good grounding in the syllabus
I agree with Monsoon...
Just do it. It is amazing how much you pick up just working through the CTA studies. Why waste you time and money going through the study packs and not get the qualification at the end of it. I got my CTA qualification in 1994 and used what they called "correspondence courses" then, but I think now they are the study packs you can buy from Lexis Nexis etc. It is so so worth it - the in depth study prepares you for all manner of tax questions that your clients might throw at you from the basic to the fairly obscure. It helps you to discern how best to help your client with their tax affairs and to identify your own specialisms.
I went through the ATT route even though I had studied and passed the ACCA tax papers (although never actually qualified as ACCA due to unforseen circumstances interrupting my studies), I was amazed at the amount of stuff that I did not pick up on with the ACCA studies. The ATT and CTA are specialised tax qualifications so they are a lot more detailed (and tougher) than tax modules with other accounting bodies.
Just go for it.
Interesting
It's really interesting that even ATT is more in depth than the ACCA (and presumably ACA) tax modules. Based on that, and based on the fact that I only deal with small businesses, I'm really happy with my choice of AAT and ATT (and hopefully CTA) as opposed to a chartered accountancy qualification. Not that I ever had the option of ACCA/ACA, but still :)
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It's really interesting that even ATT is more in depth than the ACCA (and presumably ACA) tax modules. Based on that, and based on the fact that I only deal with small businesses, I'm really happy with my choice of AAT and ATT (and hopefully CTA) as opposed to a chartered accountancy qualification. Not that I ever had the option of ACCA/ACA, but still :)
I have no experience of ATT but can say ACA was reasonably in depth and similar to CTA. The main difference I found was ACA was targetted at larger PLCs with things like the world wide debt cap, NGNL groups, exit charges for corporates, etc, whereas in my OMB and IND CTA papers the focus was SMEs, but lacking slightly in the other issues which sometimes do affect our client base. I think there is room for improvement in both!
I would highly recommend a Tolley's correspondence and revision course, the revision part really helps cement everything together.
We are a small practice and my employer paid around £3,000 all in for correspondence & revision. Looking back I can certainly say it was money well spent. I would certainly suggest that you come to some sort of arrangement with your employer. They can reclaim the VAT. They can get a C/T deduction. You do not receive a Benefit in Kind for work based training.
If you pay personally, it's after tax & nic funds paying the bills!
Either way, definitely do it. Don't be put off by the pass rates.
Perhaps slightly biased but
As a CTA and a branch officer I would strongly suggest that you do study for CTA. The time commtment required is substantial, but so are the future potential rewards - if you want to move on most employers nowadays look for CTA for senior tax posts, recognising the depth of coverage and quality of examination.
You will also find that studying CTA gives you a more rounded view of the tax world. leading on to being able to spot issues for clients in areas which you do not provide advice currently.
Thanks all
I would love to do it, low pass rates don't scare me as, if there is one thing I can do, it's pass exams (really well).
However, I'm put off by:
- £360.86 + £373.00 + £72.00 + £72.00 + £475.00 + £263.32 = £1,616.18 Just for the books! Plus a few hundred for the exams... Say £2,000 overall. And on me passing my employer would say 'Oh' and life would go on, I'm not cut out for life in the Big 4 so I would be a stupidly overqualifed middle manager. Maybe if the market picks up and I can go be a real manager somewhere I could command a wage befitting my stupidly long name, but not yet.
- People ran a mile from me when I was job hunting last time, thinking I was overqualified for the sort of jobs I wanted, they would hide behind the sofa if I added CTA. And I won't feel safe in a job until I retire, in another 50 years or so!
- It might be seen as a coup/me getting ideas above my station, what with the CTA making me more qualified than all the partners combined (on paper, obviously not in experience!)
Woah.....
@Constantly Confused
Really? That much?! Where are you getting those prices from?
I got my ATT books through BPP. Their catalogue prices for this year for CTA materials are:
Awareness paper (x2)
text book £80 (x2)
workbook £40 (x2)
Practice and revision kit £75 (x2)
Advisory paper
Workbook £55
Practice and revision kit £80
Application & interaction
Text £50
Practice and revision kit £80
Technical texts
£80 x 3 subjects
Total £1585
Plus 4 x £120 for the exams = £480
Ok. Yes, I see your point! :lol:
But... I probably wouldn't buy all those study materials.
I only bought the textbook for ATT, plus for one exam I bought passcards. Like you, I'm good at passing exams.
And the technical texts will be useful as reference material for work, so it's not a case of discarding them once I've passed the exams.
I'm in a different boat because I work for myself so my business will fund it, so it's effectively only costing me 80% of the headline price (I trade through a Ltd). And I'll probably do CTA over two or three years, which spreads the cost nicely. I don't need CTA, it would probably make me overqualified for my target market, but who knows in what direction my business will head in the future? I can certainly see that cost would be a consideration if you're employed and your employer isn't fussed about you getting the qualification. But again - who knows where your career will lead? Are you interested in working for yourself one day?
ATT
I too only bought the ATT text books and that was plenty, but every person I have spoken to has said unless you are a genius you need the actual tuition from the CTA. But only if I intend to sit it, I could knock chunks off the cost by not buying the revision texts and missing the Law part entirely, then just not taking any exams.
I will have to see.
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You don't need to be a genius. I'm not. I've got crap GCSE's and dropped out of college.
Studied AAT, passed that no problems. That feeds into ACA, passed that in Dec 10 (2 fails :( ). Sat CTA in May 11 sitting, passed that with 4 months correspondence study & a revision course from Tolley's.
I don't regret not taking tuition courses, however I am glad I took the revision course. Having the ability to send in exam papers for marking by an official marker was a great selling point for me.
you may well not be a genius Cparker....
but the pass rate indicates that the exams are tough - you may find that you are the exception to the rule. That is not to say it is not possible - but depending upon Constantly's circumstances (easy to study at home/able to take time off etc) will impact on ability to pass first time.
Why don't you buy one of the study packs - then go through it and see where you fit in regard to its difficulty - then you can decide upon ho much/little study material you will require.
ATT
Hello, could somebody advise from their past experience whether two months is enough to prepare for ATT paper 1 exams. I am intending to do distance learning. Many thanks.
ATT
Hi,
I come from a different angle to the other obviously highly successful posters. I would say that it depends on your previous experience and age. I couldn't get match fit in 6 months but there again I have no formal accountancy training and am at the age where most respectable partners are collecting a pension. I know that the course is designed for candidates with no previous experience and other disciplines such as lawyers take it.
The study book I have been using did seem to cover an immense amount without really explaining anything. I have come to the conclusion that either I need to stop questioning what I am told and leave it until I get to the CTA course to fill in the gaps or more cynically you need to purchase the full tuition pack to get the complete picture.
The stuff I really find difficult is presentation and exam technique and worst of all, I have typed previous exams so haven't picked up a pen in 10 years .... and there are dire warnings about illegible scripts getting chucked out.
However, I am going to keep trying as I have learned a tremendous amount and compared with the other organizations I have studied under the ATT is very well run and the course very relevant to the day to day stuff I deal with.
advice
Hi,
i have recently qualified for my ACCA but i am looking into opening up my own business and tasking care of small nbusinesses (i,e shopkeepers/small sole traders etc).i was wandering what is the best option to expand and review my skills so i can provide service to my clients (i.e tax returns vat returns etc).Is it worth me doing CTA or ATT.all comments aprreciated very much.
thanks
ATT
I want to get working knowledge on completion of personal & sole trader tax returns. I am an ACA who has worked in industry for past 20 years so have lost touch with recent tax developments. Is ATT the right route or CTA for me as I am not looking to work in the industry in tax.Kind regards