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Carrying back losses from 2009/10 to 2008/09 Is it all or nothing?

Carrying back losses from 2009/10 to 2008/09 Is...

I am considering carrying back losses from 2009/10 in order to reduce my tax bill due 31 January.

If I elect to do this do I have to carry back all the losses (insomuch as they cover the profits) or can I be cute and safeguard my personal allowance?

Thank you and Happy Christmas


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30th Dec 2009 07:33

More complex

 It's not quite as simple as that. You can take advantage of loss relief in certain ways but not any way you want. I'd recommend you discuss your position with your accountant.

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By Anonymous
30th Dec 2009 16:37

Thanks Peter

He is too busy but suggested I ask here.

I am confident that loss relief is available but would welcome advice as to whether I have to carry back all the losses or just the amount I need to reduce my tax bill to zero? Thank you. 

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30th Dec 2009 16:44

What does this say to you?

 He's too busy?

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By Anonymous
30th Dec 2009 21:14


Gosh what appalling service.

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By Anonymous
01st Jan 2010 16:26

Yes, terrible and ill-informed

Ill-informed if he thought that anyone on here would actually bother to answer the question! Accountants, don't you just love 'em?

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01st Jan 2010 17:54


 Why does nearly everybody post anonymously? Are they ashamed of what they say?

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By Anonymous
03rd Jan 2010 13:57


But you should be.

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03rd Jan 2010 14:18

Subscription based

 Roll on the day when AccountingWeb is subscription-based and the inadequates are priced out of the site.

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03rd Jan 2010 14:49


It is all or nothing.  You cannot restrict the claim to the amount in excess of your tax-free personal allowance for the previous year, but you can choose to set the claim for 2009/10 trading losses against any other income for 2009/10 before claiming the balance against 2008/09 income.

However, I do not think you can claim relief for 2009/10 losses on your 2008/09 tax return before submitting a 2009/10 tax return to establish the amount of the losses.  You will probably get more latitude for "unsubstantiated" 2009/10 losses under the Time to Pay arrangements.

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03rd Jan 2010 15:33


If the loss is quantifiable, ie ARD falls between 05 April and date of claim, and accounts are available, then yes I think you can make an advance claim for the loss.  (At least, I have certainly done this successfully.  Whether HMRC should have accepted it is perhaps contentious.  I do recall looking it up before trying it, but I have not looked up the reference since.) Whether that is a better option than BPSS is another matter.

To the OP I would just add that you may have scope for reducing the quantum of loss by way of partially disclaiming capital allowances, in order to preserve personal allowances in the year of relief.  But you may have thought of that.

Don't forget that working tax credit claim (if you or spouse have other income sources it may not be relevant).

With kind regards

Clint Westwood

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03rd Jan 2010 16:18

Various options

Set loss against general income of the same year and/or the preceding year - s 64 ITA 2007

Carried back against trading profit of the previous three years - Sch 6 FA 2009

Set against capital gains of the same year - s 261B TCGA 1992

Carried forward against subsequent profits of the same trade - s 83 ITA 2007

Losses in the first four years of a trade can be carried back against general income of earlier years - s 72 ITA 2007

Losses on cessation of trade can be carried back against earlier profits of the same trade - s 89 ITA 2007

You can't set a bit of this against a bit of that but there are various options. I'd suggest geting an accountant who has the time to deal with your problem rather than one who directs you to a website.

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08th Jan 2010 11:27

Carry back of 2009-10 trading loss to 2008-09

Have a look at page TC2 of the Tax Return calculation for 2008/09. Box 15 is described as 'Any 2009-10 repayment you are claiming now'.

But, the narrative above Box 15 refers to 'carrying back to 2008-09 certain losses from 2009-10'.

And page TCSN 21 of the tax calculation working sheets in the 'Big Book' also refers to the carry back to 2008-09 of a 2009-10 trading loss.

So, the entry to be made in Box 15 is for the tax repayment calculated to arise from the loss brought back, rather than entry of the loss itself.




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By Anonymous
08th Jan 2010 11:33


Can I ask - Have you paid your accountant?  Are your fees up to date?

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By Anonymous
01st Feb 2010 17:37


You can claim the 09/10 trading loss as a brought back claim, ie stand alone claim in the 2009 Tax Return, provided the accounting figures have been quantified by the time the claim is made, ie the filing date. 

I believe it is all or nothing, and you cannot restrict the loss to save personal allowance.

Entry goes in box 15 on page TC2.

Shame that people can be rude to one another on a site like this, if you want someone to be curteous, try asking nicely!


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