Certificate & Letters

Certificate & Letters

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Hi Everyone,

New to the forum and site. So you're going to have to try and help me out here :S 

I'll start from the beginning, I am a young Accountant (23). I started at college then I moved upto University where I quit after year 2 of a Business Management degree course this giving me only a HNC in Business Management. My older brother runs a successful Accountancy practice where at the time he had 2 offices, he asked if I would like to work part time training to become an Accountant. I received no perks at any time of my trainee period but slowly after a three/four years I gathered enough experience for my brother to open a larger office in a very busy town centre. My brother offered me the opportunity to run this office alone just with skeletal staff to assist me. 

After 5 years experience I now run a successful office in a busy location with a large client base with junior accountants beneath me to ease the pressure. Other than enrolling on AAT courses and not going through with them because of time I have done this with just experience.

However, my question is now is the time to "try" and gain some recognition from an Accountancy Body. I need a certificate for my office and ideally need "letters" after my name. The problem is I only have A-Levels and a HNC and 5 years experience. I understand IFA and FTA accept just experienced individuals as members, i tried this last year and was turned down. Does anyone else have any other recommendations?

All help is appreciated. Sorry if i have waffled on incoherently. 

Thanks.

Jack.

Replies (26)

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By blok
28th Aug 2012 17:32

.

study and pass exams and earn the qualifications like the rest of us.

or continue without the letters.

surely you knew that.

simples.

 

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
28th Aug 2012 17:49

.

Deleted as thought better about the post!

 

 

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
28th Aug 2012 22:31

Experience and qualifications
You have only 3 years "real world" experience (the 2 years you spent in university doesn't count for much ... sorry) and most of that 3 years would probably only be at junior or semi-senior level.

To be blunt, with no qualifications and only 3 years experience, you are too young to be running an accountancy office, unless all you are doing is bookkeeping or basic accounts prep.

The best thing you can do is give the office back to your brother, go and work for someone else for a couple of years and gain some qualifications and perhaps more importantly different experience. Then you can go back to your office with a certificate, some letters and will be able to provide a much greater range of services to your clients.

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
29th Aug 2012 09:42

AAT

The AAT is the perfect professional body for someone in your situation but as blok says, you will have to work to get the qualification.

The alternative is the ICPA which lets you in with experience, if you fit their entry criteria.

As someone who practiced unqualified for a number of years, I'm not going to criticise your route to entry, and congratulations on building a business at such a young age. All I would say is when you're that age (the age I was when I started out), the chances are you have far more confidence than experience - do be aware that you know a lot, but you don't know what you don't know. For that reason, even before I qualified AAT I joined the ATT with a view to enhancing my knowledge (very highly recommended).

If you want the letters you will have to work for it. They are worth it.

 

 

 

 

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By Carlos_Fandango
29th Aug 2012 10:50

It's only a matter of time before you come unstuck and have to make a big PI claim.

Then again it's your brothers risk not yours.

It looks to me that you want your clients to think your are professionally qualified (as you want to have letters after your name) but you don't want to put the effort in to get worthwhile ones................

Unfortunately the public at large do not know that anybody can set up as an accountant or that you can (effectively) just buy qualifications if you have 'time served'.

Clients assume you are qualified, as accountancy is a profession like solicitors and doctors etc.etc.

Quite how those unqualified 'accountants' have the front to sell themselves as 'accountants' is beyond me.

I wouldn't have the front to do it.

I worked hard for my ACCA and bloody hard to get my CTA qualification.

Go and get some proper exams - you will feel more confident with the clients - and your staff will respect you - because right now if you have junior staff going to college learning AAT it won't be long before they actually do know more than you (as opposed to just thinking they do).

 

 

 

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
29th Aug 2012 13:03

Unfair?

Carlos, I think some of your comments are a tad unfair.

I have an unqualified working for me, and she is far better than I am at accountancy (I prefer tax, and I am happy to admit she's better than me in some areas - but that's down to a manual accounting background I think - a totally different topic). She's got 20 years experience, and is currently studying the AAT just so she has some letters - even though she is bored to tears half the time with it.

Sure, the OP has far fewer years experience than that, but we all know a newly qualified with no experience is probably a far worse accountant than the OP, and I know who I'd probably rather employ (as long as the OP does actually know his stuff - and none of us can know that or judge).

Assuming a big PI claim is looming is very unfair. People are allowed to know what they are doing without having a piece of paper to prove it. Again, we have no idea if this applies to the OP or not, but it's unfair to make sweeping statements.

Most of us on this website have worked damned hard to get our qualifications, but those who don't have letters after their name aren't automatically lesser accountants - it's the quality and skills of the individual that determine that, no matter what letters after a name.

I do however agree with this:

It looks to me that you want your clients to think your are professionally qualified (as you want to have letters after your name) but you don't want to put the effort in to get worthwhile ones.

If that is the case then, OP, you need to suck it up and get on with a decent qualification, just like my unqual is doing.

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By Carlos_Fandango
29th Aug 2012 14:18

Maybe it's a little unkind to say 'it's only a matter of time'

There are many 'qualified by experience' accountants out there who are great, and many qualified accountants out there who are not.

But, i'd rather go to a newly qualified doctor than a bloke of 50 who isn't qualified but 'has worked in a hospital for years.'

I do agree, qualification is one aspect of the job, one of many.

We pass our driving test at 18 - doesn't mean we can drive - but you can't drive your car without having passed your test - that's what's wrong with accountancy.

 

 

 

 

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By jackb2
29th Aug 2012 17:22

Ok I have read all of your comments and I feel that I haven't been welcomed here at all. 

There was no need to be so blunt all of you. I understand you have all worked hard for your qualifications. Not all Accountants need to be qualified or chartered many manage without being so. But yes it helps. 

So if i can earn a career without doing this, why the hell cant I. A little jealous perhaps??

I have worked my way up with just experience and now earn good money and yes I am 23 years old. I have built up a client base of 250 clients in 6 months, that is all me. I am not a city toff accountant, just your average town centre based accountant carrying out work for sole traders/limited companies etc. 

I think a lot of you need to take a look in the mirror and get off that high horse! 

 

 

 

 

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Replying to Neil1:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
29th Aug 2012 17:56

Jack - you're young....

and it shows. Good luck.

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By ShirleyM
29th Aug 2012 17:54

Why do accountants regularly compare themselves to Doctors?

Despite tax and everything else, the result of a Doctors mistake can be far more serious than anything an accountant can do.

I think accountants are more comparable to an engineer/mechanic. You can be a Rolls Royce engineer working on jet engines, or you can be the little guy down the road who services second hand Lada's.

The most important skill is knowing not to take on the Rolls Royce jet engine jobs when you are only skilled at bog standard services.

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By blok
29th Aug 2012 20:39

.
What did you expect?
You ask a bunch of guys how to acheive something that they have had to sacrifice and grind for over a number of years but dont appear to want to put in the effort.
Maybe if you do do exams (you dont need to) you will appreciate the reaction to your comments.
You are 23. You quit your degree, and have a certificate and now have junior staff working under you. Im sorry, but i find that difficult to comprehend.

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
29th Aug 2012 22:05

Qualifications
If what you say is true then you have done very well considering your young age. What you are perhaps seeking more than qualifications is the credibility that your youth denies you.

Credibility doesn't come by finding some accountancy organisation that will accept you and paying the subs. It comes from experience, some of can be gained by taking exams. I started work at 18, passed AAT at 21 and ACCA at 26. Exams are difficult, time-consuming, sometimes demoralising ... but ultimately worth it. But most things worth achieving in life usually are.

Don't bother wasting your money buying some mickey mouse certificate and letters, just to impress your clients ... none of my clients have never asked to see any of mine. You know what you've got to do ... knuckle down, get studying and earn a certificate and letters.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
30th Aug 2012 09:07

.

I  remember being 23.

I knew pretty much everything I needed to know.  I was sitting my finals and one year away from being fully qualified and would of course then know absolutely everything.

Then one fine day the penny dropped....

 

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By lh3f9764bg1g
31st Aug 2012 11:29

sanctimony

Am I mistaken or is it no longer the case that the main professional bodies still exclude students from completing their course and attaining their letters unless and until they have completed some (considerable) time within a "qualified" practice? If that is still the case then, Jack, you may never be able to acquire the letters you crave unless you are prepared to jack it all in (pardon the pun) and go to work for another practice for some time. I suspect that this mightn't seem like a runner to you. I sympathise with your problem as I found myself in exactly the same predicament in the early 1980's. I took the sc**w-you route and I haven't ever regretted it. There always seems to be a degree of sanctimony emanating from the "qualified" group, Jack, but always remember that it wasn't guys like you or me that were involved in auditing the books or the banks, Enron, Lehman's etc. etc. etc. etc..

I, for my part, wish you the VERY best of luck. More power to your elbow!

Chris.

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
31st Aug 2012 11:33

Sanctimony

The reasons stated above do indeed apply to (all?) the chartered qualifications. That's why I recommended the AAT, who would let you in - once you've done the exams :)

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By magocks
31st Aug 2012 12:02

Accountancy Protection

This post shows precisley why the 'Accountant' name needs protected in law from any tom dick or harry using it.

You are 23 years old with no relevant qualifications and no worthwhile 'real world' expertise. Most of us 'accountants' train at university then put in 3/4 gruelling years training and studying to gain the appropriate qualifications. Why should someone like you, with no qualifications, be entitled to trade off the same name as me?

 

if you want to gain some recognition from an accountancy body then go and do the exams like everyone else.

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Locutus of Borg
By Locutus
31st Aug 2012 12:01

Agree with Monsoon

I started studying for AAT at 19, with no degree and no previous experience.  In terms of practical knowledge that I use in the real world, it was actually more useful than ACCA that I did later.

If you stick with AAT, at the end of if you get a worthwhile qualification.  It also opens the door to moving on to other qualifications should you choose to go down that route.

So I would say to the OP, dust off those old AAT books and get back to it.

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By bduncan
31st Aug 2012 12:28

If you have gained 250 clients in 6 months you are a very successful salesperson. Stop trying to be an accountant be a businessman and manage your business.

If you have grown by undercutting everyone you will soon realise that you are not a good businessman and the business will likely fail.

If you are a good businessman then you will service the clients satisfactorily and profitably and continue to expand. I would personally rather have a succesful profitable accountancy practice than be an accountant.

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By MissAccounting
31st Aug 2012 12:42

Ha!

I wasnt going to reply to this but its Friday afterall and Im in a grumpy mood and in need of a large glass of Rose!

 

250 clients in 6 months is indeed good going, so good in fact I dont believe it sadly; least of all from someone who wants a "certificate for their wall" and "some letters after their name"  I have 3 shiney certificates on my wall and a whole bunch of letters after my name and I dont have 250 clients so you are already doing better than me so I would personally continue with what you are going!

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By ShirleyM
31st Aug 2012 13:19

A go-getter

Jack is a go-getter. He will soon have 50 qualified accountants working for him (and two support staff) and a few mill in reserve at the bank.

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By Robert Clubb
31st Aug 2012 15:13

I Just Knew.........................

.......................that the old 'chestnut' would be mentioned somewhere in the replies.

If there was a prize magocks, it would definately be yours!

 

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By Olive-Gardiner
31st Aug 2012 16:57

Why?

If you are this amazing success, why do you say you "need" a certificate and letters? Especially as you appear to disdain the achievement they represent.

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By alancharly
02nd Sep 2012 09:37

Nonsense

I am going to make this very brief as the post warrants no time. I am amazed at how gullible the Accountants who commented on this post are. Utterly amazed. For a start no 23 year old could pull off running a busy practice without SENIOR staff and to be frank any small business person who visited the office would immediately be conerned about the age/experience/qualifications of a youngster and would be very uncomfortable and ask a lot of probing,exposing questions. Furthermore it is blatantly obvious that this man is either stirring up trouble between "qualified" and "unqualified" accountants and having a laugh or delluded as it is simply impossible to sign up 250 new clients in 6 months. Absolutely impossible. If there is any truth in this post and I seriously doubt it, this man should be reported to HMRC and removed as an agent as he has said enough to raise serious doubt at his ability to manage clients tax affairs and liase with HMRC. Many people do not realise that HMRC can and do get rid of agents and write to their clients advising them to find a new agent. This guy may well have a brother who is an accountant and may well plan to copy him by abusing the system however there are no clients and any who come will quickly leave on asking information on Capital Gains Tax, Seafarers Earnings Deductions, Non Resident rules, Change of Accounting period, Roll over Relief etc. No one could pose as an accountant without considerable knowledge and experience without being exposed. My advice would be to visit a Psychiatrist and google delusions of grandeur.

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By zimby
03rd Sep 2012 14:37

You will get bitten

I feel for you, but take it from me - I have not had the opportunity to complete my qualification for many reasons and have 15+years of experience in Accounting and 2 years I ago decided to give it another go - I now only have a few sittings remaining .. basically, if you don't sit the exams, not having the qualification will always come back to bite you where it hurts most! Also agree with Alan C that this might just be a hoax!

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By The Black Knight
03rd Sep 2012 14:22

Ere I want a word with you!

Just make up some letters seen that done before, or use them anyway, no one does anything.

It appears the letters are for marketing purposes (of no use really) and not to gain the knowledge you need......used to be quite important a long time ago.

The passing of exams also shows you are clever enough to do the job...one (just one) of the basic requirements I would have thought.

Sorry but qualified by experience used to apply to people with 15+ years experience who had served their time in Chartered Firms and picked up on those values and working practices.

That is not the same as someone who decides they are an accountant one morning.

To be an accountant you need to pass the exams and complete the relevant experience and continue to learn every day!!!

If you are in practice the two badges you need to look at are Chartered Accountants ACA or Chartered Certified Accountant ACCA

and yes you need that as a minimum education!! in my opinion.

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Image is of a pin up style woman in a red dress with some of her skirt caught in the filing cabinet. She looks surprised.
By Monsoon
04th Sep 2012 11:58

Ere Black Knight!

The Black Knight wrote:
If you are in practice the two badges you need to look at are Chartered Accountants ACA or Chartered Certified Accountant ACCA

and yes you need that as a minimum education!! in my opinion.

I know, I shouldn't rise to it, but apparently I am :)

Small* clients only = AAT is fine, preferably with ATT.

Just saying :)

 

*and we all know the technical definition of Small.

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