Class Twogate

Class Twogate

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There seems to have been no progress on Class Twogate.

I received two SA302s this week for partners in the same firm, amending their returns to delete the Class 2 NI charge based on "information held by HMRC".

Curiously, the third partner hasn't had an amendment yet.

Replies (13)

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By Paul D Utherone
28th Jul 2016 17:25

You have to check and ring HMRC to get them to sort it or it will keep happening.

Class 1 details for Class 4 calculations seem to be there now. If you don't use those HMRC will amend in the same way to reduce Class 4 and HMRC TR software does it automatically (as there is no box on the return to make a claim it just happens with what is showing on the client account). If you think that is also wrong then you will need to tell HMRC I presume.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Jul 2016 18:01

It's a known software error.

Sure, we've told them we resile from their amendment. But I don't intend to spend hours on the phone telling them something with which they're already dealing. I'm expecting dozens of these.

Class 1 is nothing to do with this. None of the partners are employed.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Jul 2016 18:02

Duplicated

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By Paul D Utherone
29th Jul 2016 08:57

Presume you mean an HMRC software error. It's not so much an error with the calculation software as a SNAFU with the link between HMRC & NICO records so that HMRC are adjusting to what they think it should be based on their understanding of the position. So a bit of damned whether they do or don't.

It would be helpful if the software could be made to recognise that there is a self employed/partnership source that is greater than the Class 2 small profit limit and accept the TR figure, or a "voluntary" payment of Class 2 whilst checking back to the NICO system and updating it, but...

I know re the Class 1/4 bit...I merely mention it as another NIC issue that we may come across in certain circumstances that will have the same issues as the Class 2 problems with HMRC automatically amending a calculation to account for it.

The details of what HMRC hold are clearly visible in the client record for both Class 2 & Class 1 adjustments (if relevant). If you use HMRC software to do the return it pulls through automatically, otherwise we just need to follow the HMRC guidance, check the client record and speak to HMRC if we think it's wrong and before submitting a return with something different so that they can update their & NICO records. If not it will just keep happening, annoying as it is.

Presumably this is just a forerunner of issues that might come with MTD if bank interest details are reported direct to HMRC and prepopulate the client record. Happy day!

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By Duggimon
29th Jul 2016 09:07

Just put whatever you like in for Class 2, nobody cares anymore, who even knows how it works? Far too complicated a tax, this whole "one amount for everyone" is beyond comprehension.

Personally I like to put in whatever figure will give me a nice round number for the tax so I can sound all casual when I tell the clients what they owe.

"Yeah, it's £1,300 this year" then out comes the return and comp and it's exactly £1300 and I look pretty cool.

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Replying to Duggimon:
By Paul D Utherone
29th Jul 2016 09:15

Better still, then the client gets a refund when HMRC amend it to NIL unless the client says "why?" and you say "I just made it up" :)

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By monksview
25th Aug 2016 16:15

I've had a few of these. The first time I called HMRC they insisted the only way to sort it out was to complete an SA1. What an utter shambles

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By monksview
11th Nov 2016 12:20

Anyone had any sort of resolution on this issue? I am still getting SAS302s with the class 2 stripped out. It is wearing me out...

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Replying to monksview:
RLI
By lionofludesch
11th Nov 2016 12:46

I made out a list of folk who have no Class 2 liability shown on the "Information to Complete your Tax Return" and I'm going to send it to NICO in Longbenton.

One of them is me!!

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By SteveHa
18th Nov 2016 10:39

How on earth do you get it fixed? I've spoken to two separate people on the ADL, neither of whom had a clue.

Up to now, they haven't reverted their amendment.

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Replying to SteveHa:
RLI
By lionofludesch
18th Nov 2016 11:02

I ended up ringing NICO on 0300 200 3500 and giving them a list of all the taxpayers' names, NI numbers and dates of birth.

Done within an hour or so. Then you have to re-submit your original tax return with some note about resiling from the amendment in the white space.

Too soon to say definitely whether it's worked yet.....

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By SteveHa
18th Nov 2016 11:33

I've approached it a little differently, and have since spoken to a manager, who claims that the only way to displace the amendment is to submit a CWF1, which is required of everyone with self-employed income.

I've pointed out that the way to displace the amendment is in accordance with S.9ZB which only requires an objection to be notified to HMRC, which I was doing. I also requested details of the legislation requiring CWF1.

I suspect the best I'll get will be some reference to S.7, which has been fulfilled by submission of the SATR.

I just sit back and wait now and see what happens.

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Replying to SteveHa:
RLI
By lionofludesch
18th Nov 2016 11:44

Well, it isn't the only way. HMRC need to correct their records. It's not up to us to submit a form for them to do that.

I compiled my list by looking through "Information to help you complete your tax return" and picking out the cases where the Class 2 NI wasn't shown as £145.60.

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