Can anyone point to the relevent legislation in the TMA 1970 or section of HMRC's manual where it says directors self assessments are mandatory? I am still in dispute with HMRC, and the ACCA technical helpline also says there is no mandatory SA registration for directors either. tempted to push this one, but want to be sure.
thanks guys and girls, enjoy your weekends!
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As Tim says, pushing it won't do you any good. Withdrawing a return is at their discretion, so they are unlikely to withdraw it even if (by some miracle) you got them to accept directors aren't required to.
If this is a continuation of your query from early March, you're putting this question to the wrong people. You should be asking HMRC to quote the relevant legislation. Only when they are unable to do so will you be able to argue your clients had no reason to suspect they needed to do returns.
I have succeeded in this several times historically drawing their attention to EM4551, section 4.
Tried again just before Xmas, and they dicked about for ages, I asked them for the legislation and they could not tell me, just wrote back nonsense quoting at one point their own website.
Filed it in the end as it was approaching the deadline and it was a 10 minute job anyway, and once its passed due I dont think it can be withdrawn.
I mentioned this recent case report elsewhere earlier this morning - http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2017/TC05725.html
As others have said there is nothing that says a return is mandatory for a director, but if HMRC have required a return and will not cancel the requirement under s8B TMA then you are stuck, and as Dr. OLGA MALINOVSKAYA found will not, or are unlikely, have a reasonable excuse against late filing penalties.
The result of the above case does seem particularly iniquitous in the circumstances given
...and here's another even more pertinent case from the flood of releases of those held up for Donaldson - http://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKFTT/TC/2017/TC05744.html
HMRC accepts that 'no liability' is relevant for s7 TMA notification of liability, but not s8 if a return has been required. FTT points out that HMRC could have withdrawn under s8B (and the implication was that they really felt that should have been done considering there was no liability and the companies were dormant throughout) but in the absence of HMRC doing so there is nothing FTT can do and no reasonable excuse.
So if a return is issued, and one cannot get HMRC to withdraw under s8B then the taxpayer is stuffed and the only sensible option is submit nil returns ASAP
...so in essence I wouldn't push too hard, because you'll most likely come a cropper if you go to tribunal
In very simple cases where a new ltd co has been registered in say Febuary 2016, starts trading mid-2016, then 'client' decides to find an accountant when the Conf Stat reminder arrives Feb 2017 ....
HMRC get wind of SA 2015/16 either from CH or SA1.
After registering as SA agent, I just phone HMRC SA and ask them to remove SA 2015/16.
Haven't failed yet.
