Experience of international payments

How to stop payments being rejected

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Hi,

I guess it's not so practice related but I'm so frustrated with HSBC that I wondered if anyone else has experience of this and can offer advice. I'm trying to make payments via their internet banking to India, Afghanistan and even Italy now and payments are just being bounced back by intermediary banks. HSBC are worse than useless at offering advice and the account manager is referring me to their business internet banking section who don't know either! Excuse me for being old but what happened to the days of your account manager having ultimate power to sort these things out for you? Can anyone offer a suitable alternative to get these payments to the suppliers? This is just so frustrating.

Thanks in advance

 

 

Replies (18)

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By tom123
25th May 2017 09:15

Do you use HSBCNet?

We do, and manage to make payments to Italy fine.

The HSBCNet helpdesk are usually quite helpful.

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Replying to tom123:
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By NeilRH
25th May 2017 09:32

tom123 wrote:

Do you use HSBCNet?

We do, and manage to make payments to Italy fine.

The HSBCNet helpdesk are usually quite helpful.

I was wondering about Italy, as I don't think I've ever experienced any issues with any payment to Italy. However, nine times out of ten payments to USA banks are fine, but a few require the use of an intermediary and it's this extra step that causes the problem.
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By NeilRH
25th May 2017 09:30

Hi

I'm not sure if this helps or not, but I've experienced similar problems with intermediary banks, although not when processing through HSBC. I believe this crux of the matter lies with how the intermediary sees/processes the payment instruction, which is why your bank is being less than helpful - they probably don't see it as their problem!

The recipient we had problems with was US based (so not sure if the cause of the problem was the same), we were able to resolve it by liaising with them in terms of what additional instructions/details needed to be included with the electronic payment and being vigilant when payments were made to the supplier. Since it is in their interests (and you probably aren't the only company they deal with who has this issue) they can usually provide details of the correct process/information to include etc.

I was wondering if the international payment service providers, such as Western Union, can do it more efficiently since they "specialise", but that also leaves me wondering why one of the worlds biggest banks can't!

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Replying to NeilRH:
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By tom123
25th May 2017 09:37

I used to work for a UK subsid of a North American parent - who adopted HSBC globally.

as far as I recall, HSBC dealt with all requirements.

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By Pete57
25th May 2017 09:49

Hi, thanks for all your replies. Sorry, I'm confusing countries. Myanmar is the other one and not Italy sorry for the confusion. The Italy payment is still pending and just feel that might be rejected also!

Yes using HSBC net who, yes, are washing their hands of it and saying they don't know as it's the intermediary bank doing the rejecting! But surely they can offer some advice? The predecessor Accountant in the role (I am just steadying the ship for a while) said she used to go to a branch (now uncontactable!) but our account manager said there are no extra payments you can make in the branch that you can't do online. This is extra problematic because I'm not on the mandate to speak to HSBC either.

As commented below, should I use someone like Western Union? My question then becomes one of a) security b) why would they be better and c) Surely HSBC would have adopted western union's better practices?

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Replying to Pete57:
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By NeilRH
25th May 2017 09:57

Pete57 wrote:

As commented below, should I use someone like Western Union? My question then becomes one of a) security b) why would they be better and c) Surely HSBC would have adopted western union's better practices?

Western Union probably charge more too!

Initially, the issue with the USA payment was a learning curve, we then followed this with some extra vigilance when processing future payments to the supplier (who wasn't the most amenable and who's bank couldn't receive international payments directly!). The problem lay with the intermediary not knowing where to forward the payment when they received it, so they bounced it back. The instructions for them had to be included as extra details in the payment instruction (not sure exactly how this is done in HSBCnet) and for it to work the details had to be spot-on.

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Replying to NeilRH:
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By tom123
25th May 2017 10:29

There are extra fields that you can enter, where you put instructions for the intermediaries.

There are specific abbreviations you need to prefix the instructions with.

I think, in reality, you will need to get on the HSBCNet mandate to sort this out.

Our relationship manager doesn't really know anything about HSBCnet, and everything is dealt with by them.

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Replying to tom123:
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By Pete57
25th May 2017 10:36

Where are these extra fields? I can't see them. Yes, Ideally I need to be on the mandate but for a month it isn't worth it. For clarification I am using internet banking which is different from HSBC Net I believe.

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Replying to Pete57:
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By kiwilondon99
25th May 2017 11:36

you don't need to be on the mandate. Get a letter from CEO MD - signed by 2 directors and wing it off to everyone- [ credit card -cust relations - treasury etc etc ] relationship manager especially - normally works, that gets them to speak with You. Cover ALL account numbers !
As to moving money out of the Bank -then you'll need a mandate
To USA you may need to change the batch processing mode USA have ACH etc ?

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Replying to Pete57:
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By tom123
25th May 2017 11:56

HSBCNet is a full function service offered to medium sized businesses - so there are different payment types that you can create - with lots of extra sections if required.

It is actually quite different to the straightforward internet banking - which is broadly similar to the consumer product.

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By stratty
25th May 2017 09:57
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Caroline
By accountantccole
25th May 2017 12:25

Currency brokers normally mean you get a better exchange rate - we use Casco fx
We had a client who moved money from a Euro HSBC account to GBP HSBC account who could have saved £200 on a £20k transfer if they had gone via broker

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By Pete57
25th May 2017 12:39

Thanks for all your help.

Apparently I have to pad out the message box into a bit of a sermon.

Payment of invoice x does not suffice but 'payment for supplies of headache pills and transportation to uk for resale and settlement of account' without symbols, return button etc works better to get through some of these 2nd world countries systems.

Watch this space, 3 payments now retried, watch this space!

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By pauljohnston
01st Jun 2017 10:15

Can I suggest you look at Transferwise www.transferwise.com through whom we have made many payments to many countries and no problems. The receipient even gets an email whaen payment is made

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By BizzyBizExpert
01st Jun 2017 11:53

I have introduced a number of my clients to Smart Currency Exchange Ltd https://www.smartcurrencybusiness.com/
One client banks internationally with HSBC and has found SCE cheaper faster and more efficient and the exchange rates are a lot better.

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By Selaen
01st Jun 2017 13:52

Your reason for payment should always contain the actual provision in the description when sending funds abroad. "for invoice xxx, supply of emergency parts and shipping to ship being built in China but operating in the UKCS" is a statement I didn't think I'd use as often as I do! I've found EU to be easy to deal with, but China is impossibly rigid (had a typo of n instead of m in the recipient name and the payment got held up), sending payments to Latvia was an issue (I think it was last year that all but two intermediary banks refused to work with Latvian banks). Certain countries have their own little added quirks!

Your relationship manager is unbelievably inflexible IMO. Ours do have procedures they have to use, but they'll at least explain what is wrong when they find out. Unfortunately, oftehn when it comes to intermediary banks, it is nigh on impossible to find out if there hasn't been a direct reason on the SWIFT return message. We do have issues with our online banking (where we cannot enter specific intermediary info, and other fun items), but at least are able to send manual MT101 requests in the post.

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By Pete57
01st Jun 2017 14:10

To give you all an update on this. I have made more payments but basically written a purpose paragraph hoping the intermediary bank will push through.

They are starting to go through but confused as to why if I send sterling to a sterling denominated account in Kabul or Myamar then some 'conversion' happens and then it gets converted back into sterling to 'agree' the recipients bank account denomination. The conversion at some point is pointless and its not something I am doing.

Yes, our account manager can't see internet banking screens on his screen so can't help too much! Still waiting for the corrected ID forms to filter through so at least I can get the MD to speak to the internet banking team.

Its just rumbling on really, he sighs! Thanks for all your inputs.

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By max.lee
01st Jun 2017 14:49

I have always used AFEX or similar. Their trading platform is better than my bank's, they don't charge for transacting (I make a lot of transfers under £200) and their spread of 4% is as good if not better than the high street banks. An account manager who knows both you and the FX market is always on hand so the odd returned payment is quickly resolved. Settlement is by DD.
There are peer to peer FX providers that are even cheaper but in my experience they involve additional bookkeeping as you transact at an estimated rate which is adjusted on settlement. I couldn't vouch for their customer service.

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