False Dates by HMRC on PAYE rebates letter.

False Dates by HMRC on PAYE rebates letter.

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We have been waiting many months for PAYE rebates.

I received today (12 December) a letter dated 27th October claiming to be responding to a letter of the 6th October.

Our original letter was dated 30th September having been tipped off by a post on the forum that we have to write to them this year.

it would appear the dates have been entered so that the response time is 21 days, which presumably is their target.

Is this a one off, or is it happening more widely?

If its a widespread thing it could account for the differences between what management think is happening and what is really happening on the ground.

Replies (12)

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By Jekyll and Hyde
12th Dec 2011 12:55

don't you mean fraudelantly adjusting dates

Is this not afterall fraud, under the 2006 Fraud act?

There will be a false representation of the actual date and the person will be benefiting as a result by meeting their false targets. Perhaps they receive a bonus at the end of the month for meeting targets? Thus perhaps the tax payer loses as a result of htis fraud? I don't know.

I would recomend that a letter of complaint gets sent to the serious misconduct complaints department at HMRC's london office for every letter received with suspicion of a fraudelant date being put on it.

If the civil servents can strike over pay and conditions (ie pensions), perhaps it is time for us accountants to lawfally protest over the conditions being levied upon us.

Otherwise I can't really see much we can do to stop this happening more and more.

I may sound a bit harsh, but if the accountant was falsifying dates to gain an advantage for its clients, HMRC would be using the word Fraud.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps management at HMRC are unaware that this is happening and therefore is more important we all bring it to their attention.

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By ACDWebb
12th Dec 2011 13:39

I think part of it comes down to the way their typing gets dealt

I know I have spoken to our CRM and he has bemoaned the fact that this happens - though 27 Oct to 12 Dec does seem exceptional.

A lot of HMRC letters seem to arrive dated anything up to a month previously

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By The Black Knight
12th Dec 2011 14:32

Common Practice

Used to complain with no reply..............

I agree they would call it fraud if you did it....

I have seen worse deceptive behavior from HMRC though....and this would seem to be firm culture now !

Still nothing you can do, I always make a point of stating "your letter dated........ received on ....."

But no one would notice...apart from a Tribunal Judge....

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By petersaxton
12th Dec 2011 14:44

It's not fraud it's incompetence

HMRC have a very incompetent system of posting letters. They go all over the place before being delivered.

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
12th Dec 2011 15:35

.

A thought occurred to me that it was possible that the letter WAS written on the date stated but they didn't send it out until the payment was also sent, which arrived today too.  Either way its a mess.

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By frustratedwithhmrc
12th Dec 2011 20:28

I have to agree with Peter

To be fraud would require intent and very little within HMRC nowadays seems to happen with intent, especially the handling of all forms of communication. I would classify this in the large (and very full) box marked ""HMRC Incompetance".

They are just a bunch of idiots.

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By Tom 7000
16th Dec 2011 12:01

it could be worse...

you could work there....

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By TOC
16th Dec 2011 12:17

HMRC dates

Dates on HMRC letters now appear to be random. Suppose you could use them to pick your lottery numbers.

Agree with petersaxton that there is a very incompetent system for posting letters. I have been led to believe that the writer does not post the letter and it is left up to a different department to get the letter from the system and post it. Heaven only knows how this works as the scope for error in posting letters late or not at all must be tremendous given that we are dealing with HMRC.

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By weaversmiths
16th Dec 2011 15:17

HMRC outward post

In my day post went "via Kew" and it seemed to work adequately.  I had a moan about a letter dated weeks before I received it during a telephone call with HMRC and mentioned Kew.  I was advised  that this system had been disposed of and  the post goes via private mail services now.  It appears that it is subbed down the line by the main collection service to other mail collection firms and there is little control.  Makes one wonder about the lack of security. Obviously another step backwards.

TheAncientOne

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By shumph
16th Dec 2011 16:28

No date on letter !!!

I've recently had problems with this and they have started sending me letters with "Date as Post marked" on it!!! As the prepaid envelopes all HMRC correspondence is sent in do not get date stamped this is a complete joke.

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By The Black Knight
16th Dec 2011 17:10

need a new stamp !

Received yesterday see post mark !

or received as day after postmark ?

We will soon get blank pieces of paper.....not only are revenue letters sometimes undated you often have to guess which client they are referring to, that's of course if they have sent it to the correct address.

Yet have the cheek to write at the bottom ....be sure to include name and reference number in reply !

 

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By Jekyll and Hyde
19th Dec 2011 11:05

They should be up front and mirror the NHS letters...

.... I received a letter form my NSH specialist dated as follows:

Dictated 14th October 2011,

post date: 29th October 2011

Which arrived at my house on 9th November 2011.

ommiting the delay of some 4 weeks is not really that acceptable, at least the NHS has the fore sight to be honest and correctly date the letters and not deliberately hide their admin failures. What this letter shows to me is that the NHS admin needs improving and not the care services of the specialist. My thoughts are that as my case was not a urgent priority the letter was put on a not urgent pile.

Perhaps it may be time for tax inspectors to do the same with their letter writing, put a dictation date (or inspectors date) on the letter and a seperate date for when the letter is actually sent. This would also be a good indicator for whoever monitors efficiency at HMRC.

 

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