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Has anyone else had clients affected by the riots ?

Our client's shop was vandalised, robbed, and trashed during Saturday's riots. Luckily it wasn't burnt down.

They have spoken to their insurers and were told that civil disturbance, riots, etc are not covered by their policy and that this is a "standard" term in all insurance.

So, the business will close, 3 employees will lose their jobs, and there will be a very large loss relief claim backdated to recover the last 3 years tax, so the taxpayer will lose out too.

Should government step in to help these businesses recover. Should the courts seize everything owned by the criminals who did the looting. Should insurers be forced to cover ALL risks, not just the ones they decide to cover.

  

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By BKD
09th Aug 2011 12:25

That is at odds with advice elsewhere

"most home and commercial insurance policies should cover people for fire, looting or damage."

"The AA has confirmed that riot and civil commotion is included in all of its home insurance policies"

"Most householders and business owners whose property has been damaged by the violence of the past few days should be covered by their insurance policies"

 

And most telling of all, our own insurance does not exclude riot and other civil disturbances.

So, my answer is no, all insurers should not be forced to cover all risks - it is down to the insured to ensure that their policy covers the risks they want it to. I've no doubt that a policy that does not cover riots etc will carry lower premiums than one that does.

To force all policies to cover all risks would inevitably lead to a massive hike in premiums - why should a business in Applecross be forced to pay a higher premium for riot cover?

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From the news this morning

it appears that the Association of British Insurers is suggesting that generally, these events will be covered.

There are of course, deeper questions as to why such violence and criminal activity should seem to be spiraling out of control, with such "copy-cat" mentality.

On a lighter note (and these remarks shouldn't be taken out of context) my brother in law, who lives in France now, has texted this morning and said "I bet you feel safer now that David Cameron and Boris Johnson have returned from holiday"? You bet I do. I'm just worried now that we may seek a directive from NATO over this. After all, it does seem like these rioters do have weapons of mass destruction. Let's call for that other clown - Tony Blair.

I'm sorry to say that, at the moment, I'd feel much safer if all these politicians simply stayed out of it all.

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09th Aug 2011 13:30

Controversial

I would like to see rioters, criminals, and other anti-social people, pay for the damage they cause.

If they can't pay then they should be put in the workhouse and flogged daily until the debt to society, and their victims, is repaid (OK - the last sentence is a joke, but the sentiment is unchanged).

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By PennyC
09th Aug 2011 14:16

Agreed

ShirleyM wrote:

I would like to see rioters, criminals, and other anti-social people, pay for the damage they cause.

If they can't pay then they should be put in the workhouse and flogged daily until the debt to society, and their victims, is repaid (OK - the last sentence is a joke, but the sentiment is unchanged).

I agree with the sentiment, though in this case quite unrealistic. Although poverty is not the direct root cause of the riots, I suspect that the majority of the perpetrators don't have two pennies to rub together, especially when you consider the age of many of them. On that last point, then of course the parents ought to be made to cough up, but again, what are the chances?

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09th Aug 2011 14:38

@Penny

You're right, but it doesn't stop my wishful thinking.

@Top-Cat ... I am shocked, but it's a great idea! I'll ask my vet to provide me with some emasculators and I'll do the job myself.

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10th Aug 2011 14:08

not only should they pay for the damage they should be taken into rehab and then conscripted into the army taking home the JSA rate.

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 14:12

I've asked the client to send his policy documents - this is one of the large insurers.

 

As for rioters, Shirley do you think the following would work  -

 

http://youtu.be/04clpd7h0b0 

 

 

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09th Aug 2011 14:11

When civil disobedience occurs abroad..

We send in the RAF to bomb the incumbent government while announcing that the insurgents are the 'legitimate' power.

Expect to see Libyan jets over London and a new 'youf' leader announcement from Tripoli radio. 

Respect innit....

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By Old Greying Accountant
09th Aug 2011 15:13

Just an excuse

memyself-eye wrote:

We send in the RAF to bomb the incumbent government while announcing that the insurgents are the 'legitimate' power.

Expect to see Libyan jets over London and a new 'youf' leader announcement from Tripoli radio. 

Respect innit....

Yeah, but no, but yeah ... this isn't about insurgency, it is about bored youths "on the rob". If you stopped any of them and asked them about the government they would be hard pressed to name the PM or any other cabinet minister. It is just an excuse for mayhem.

If anyone has a right to be rioting on the streets it is us lot, who work stupid hours, clear up mess after mess from HMRC, have our savings and pensions raped and looted by bank and government alike and then have most of the remainder of our hard earned lucre syphoned off to pay benefits to this rabble and their parents so they can drink and smoke the NHS into oblivion, that is when they are not off their heads with drugs.

I would round them up, ship them to Afghanistan and Iraq and say, you want to riot, off you go then!

 

 

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Old Greying Accountant

just about sums it all up, as far as I can see.

The main joke of all of this is, if they were to arrest all the offenders, there wouldn't be a jail, with sufficient space, to take them.

It seems that the "social networking systems" are aiding these rioters. Strange, isn't it, they plead poverty, but always manage to produce an iPhone? Why not, when they're brought to justice, which I very much doubt that they will, post all the offenders pictures, on the social network, so that we can all see what they look like?

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By Jimess
09th Aug 2011 18:30

Justice

I doubt the businesses and people living in the affected areas will ever feel they will have justice for what they have gone through and what they have lost.  I saw an interview on the news this morning where Ms May was talking about ensuring that the offenders are "processed" through the courts as speedily as possible and given bail!  So the government are already giving out subtle messages that the offenders could potentially go unpunished.  Probably the most they will get is a few hours community service and a nice bracelet to wear for a few years.  The police and the Government are taking such a softly softly approach on this and almost dithering on the sidelines with no clear leadership.  

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 15:15

-

No need for that expense Shirley - two house bricks will do the job.

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By Old Greying Accountant
09th Aug 2011 15:21

But ...

... mind your thumbs!

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09th Aug 2011 15:31

offenders pictures

are already appearing on some website - with slightly more vitriolic comments than on here.

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The serious question ...

The riots in the 1980's were about social division arising predominantly from race and poverty. Recently, they seem to be more about the 'age' (if you add in the university fees protests). It makes me wonder if the divide between the generations is not widening. Last night was not solely about economics of haves and have nots ... it was clearly fun and exciting and adrenalin driven like little kids having a food fight. There was no conscience or fear of what might happen ... a bit like a video game.

I don't have kids but I do wonder what what kind of monster we (society) might have created with illiteracy levels of 40%, unstable families, celebrity fixation and a strange electronic dependency.

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I do have kids and, I couldn't agree more

with Steve, I was just afraid to say what he has, in this politically correct society, we now live in.

Recent generations have left many others in society way behind and, in fairness, what goes around, comes around, at some stage.

The education system has been systematically tinkered with, by successive Governments, some kids have no education,  or guidance, whatsoever and, some families think that, a balanced diet, means walking between McDonalds, Pizza Hut and KFC. Society has let them down and, as I said at the start, the returns we will achieve depends on the effort we put in and, I haven't seen much effort in the last 30 years or so. None of this is to excuse what are simply criminal acts but, we do have to share some responsibility for the animals on the streets at the moment.

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09th Aug 2011 17:42

Please do not write off all the young

HI 

 

The best thing we can do is to engage with our youth .  They are our future.   I do not condone any violence are what they have done .  There is no doubt there is anger.  We , as adults need to show them the right way.  All kids are not bad.  Adults need to spend time doing thinks with the children instead of working all the time to have the latest car, gadgets, the best house , the best holiday.  Most kids want their parents time and would be happy  camping and going to the beach , instead of a holiday abroad especially when they are young . They do not need to be spoilt. 

It would help if we did not have MPs claiming expenses and breaking the law.  Police taking back handers from the Murdochs .  The bankers behaving in the manner they have .  It is hardly a good example .  The MPs claiming unlawful expenses was a crime, so they have a lot to do in the future  to show the youth of our country a good example.        There are loads of really good  youngsters were I live in  Glasgow .  I am a volunteer Badminton coach for the kids. and I know loads of people involved in the community.      Yes everyone is responsible and everyone should put something into their own community . It is not always up to someone else. It always seems to be the ones that moan the loudest who do nothing.  Every parent involved in a school PTA or other community organisations knows it is same people young, old and middle age who always do the work .  I know regardless of whether I had children or not , I would volunteer.  When I was  young we had two great coaches who kept us on the straight and narrow. 

Another thing the government could do is stop making it so hard for people to volunteer.  I understand child protection  rules but at what cost when we leave the young so disengaged .  You have to remember that not everyone has been given a equal start life , certainly not in the UK anyway . 

 Listening to sky coverage all day about the nice Ealing borough been damage, and an lady mentioning it was not any of local kids as there is no state school. Not once have they interview from the poorer areas today. It shows how different this country is.  Just because an area is rich it does not make it worse for the innocent in Ealing anymore then the innocent business owners in Totteman.ReportReplyEdit     

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 16:08

Criminal

I have just heard an interview on the radio with a girl who took part in the riots.  To quote this charming example of Britain's youth - "We have shown the police that we can do whatever we want".

As far as I can see that is a clear admission of pure criminality.

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By Old Greying Accountant
09th Aug 2011 17:18

I don't write off all children ...

... the vast majority are good, do their best at school, obey the law and are resposible.

There is a feral minority that cause all the trouble, often whipped on by those who know better.

It is not just about poverty and chances, as Charlie Gilmore so unequivocally demonstrated.

It is down to the parent's, but they, like alcoholics, are in denial: it is always someone else's child, not their's!

Ealing though, like anywhere, has a posh end and a rough end.

You are so right about consumer goods though Sarah, the one thing that is free is the one thing we seem loathe to give our children!

 

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09th Aug 2011 18:16

It is down to the parents

Hi 

I agree with you .  I see it all the time when I am coaching Badminton.  Its not my Johnny.  It is hard to believe that parents never think its theirs , even though all kids have moments with their own parents,  any parent who says otherwise is not telling the truth.

With regards to Ealing I don,t know the area , but I was increasingly getting annoyed with the sky news coverage today, why would they want to do it to such a nice area full of nice people as if to suggest that the other areas it was expected .  I am sure those people don,t think so. 

The sad thing is though there are kids that have no guidance , have parents you have never worked and are not that bother about their kids .  These are the kids I think we as adults should try and engage with and volunteer our skills if we able and have the personality to do so. It is not their fault they were born and they have a right to some chance.  Some people should not have kids, but it is still not the kids fault.

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Coverage

I feel immense sympathy for any innocent shop owners who have been targeted but I share your views on the TV coverage. I learned more about this from reading the AOL news feed from the US! Of all the hours of BBC coverage I have seen there has not been a single interview with a rioter and not one iota has been added to the debate that clearly needs to be had. I am a million miles away from being some sort of lefty liberal but even I can see a trend building here. Sure the rioters are criminals, out of control, don't respect authority etc etc but they also just happen to be (in the main) teenagers. 

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By 3569787
03rd May 2016 18:05

Load of tosh!

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10th Aug 2011 18:26

What a load of tosh the wet Libs give for their own failings, in trying to justifiy the riots.

40 years ago as a teenager we did not have - youth clubs, youth football or any other youth sport for that matter. All you had was scouts/girl guides upto about 16. And they only drew in a very limited number of kids.  We did not go around smashing things up.

 

This post hits the nail on the head.  I was a teenager in the 50s when we all carried knives and there was gang warfare -between gangs, though.  Not gangs and the public, and there was much respect for a policeman (because they earned it in those days) and nobody dreamed of touching one or answering back.  Then there were the Mods and Rockers.  I had children by then and kept well out of it, but this was the start of the "right to have" era which has got really out of  hand.  We never learn by our mistakes; just seem to go on and on digging the hole for ourselves.  Why pay people to have children?  If you are middle class & cannot afford them, dont have them.  We might then stop the wrong people having child after child as it is currently so profitable - after all they can bring themselves up and do..  Some do-gooder said yesterday (in Ealing) that the young people's fathers are in prison and the mothers have to work - work? Working and signing is more like it. What an atmosphere to grow up in.  There is no excuse for the present behaviour,it is  just greed.  It needs to be stopped - now.  My parents ran youth clubs in the 50s - one on a large council estate (rough) and one in a well to do area.  The most troublesome? The latter, of course. At that time everything was self funding.   The kids had to pay their dues to be in the clubs, nothing was a "right" and they all accepted it.   I always had to pay for my children to go to clubs in the 60s - but we lived in Brixton so there were no clubs for white kids - in the 70s we lived in a better area and they went to clubs.  I always worked and their father was in prison working very long hours as a Prison Officer. Life is not easy - these people ( parents and their feral kids)  need to have that point made firmly and clearly, it has been far too easy for them for far too long.  The do-gooders should stop trying to make excuses, there are none.

TheAncientOne

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10th Aug 2011 19:27

So do we just do nothing after the arrests . More riots later

[quote=weaversmiths]

 

"This post hits the nail on the head.  I was a teenager in the 50s when we all carried knives and there was gang warfare -between gangs, though.  Not gangs and the public, and there was much respect for a policeman (because they earned it in those days) and nobody dreamed of touching one or answering back.  Then there were the Mods and Rockers. "

I am only replying to this because of the mention of knifes. It does not matter what era whether in the 50's or 2011 carrying a knife  was wrong then and it still is.

 Just because if you believe you should engage with youngsters, does not make someone a do -gooders .  

It is clear there is something clearly wrong as Steve says it was all young people.  Nothing they have done is acceptable, but if we brush the no hope youngsters feel under the carpet.  We will see these riots again.   I can only talk about Glasgow and Dublin but there are plenty of statics in Glasgow that show the success of local projects and clubs.    

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09th Aug 2011 18:20

Load of tosh

Hi 

Things are very different from 40 years ago .  You now have 3rd generations were nobody has worked bringing up kids and giving the kids no hope or no guidance .  The Grandparents have not worked either .  My boys school is strict.

4o years ago your Grandparents would have been there as well.  There is no excuse for want they have done .  

40 years ago members of public took part in their community and I know where I lived hundreds of kids went scouts and brownies and guides and sports clubs.  Now days too many people walk away when they see kids misbehaving.  I have seen adults from all backgrounds throwing litter in the ground.  What type of example does that give the kids. I am not a leftie but I believe adults should set a good example.

Personally I have no problem saying something to a kid if they are misbehaving.  I am not sure everyone would agree that the mods and skinheads caused no problem .  When I was ten I remember them thrashing my favourite park and members of the public in hospital .

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 18:21

PC

OK - to hell with political correctness.

We have had 13 years of Labour's social engineering experiment and political correctness rubbish, and look where it's got us.

No discipline, parents frightened to discipline their own kids because the kids "know their rights".Teachers forbidden from raising their voice at a kid, let alone raise their hand.Schools where English is not the main language.Immigrant populations demanding therir own laws (another form of civil disobedience).Rabble rousing hate preachers allowed to spread their venomous lies.A justice system that is toothless.Police who do nothing to earn respect.And adverts everywhere you look telling you youre a failure if you dont have the latests gizmo and the right trainers.

We now have the nauseating sight of labour MPs who, last week, were encouraging mass strikes "to bring the government to its knees", yet now cry crocodile tears when youths do exactly that.

Thanks a lot to labour and the pc brigade - just look what you have done.

 

 

 

 

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By PennyC
09th Aug 2011 18:55

PC?

Top_Cat wrote:

OK - to hell with political correctness.

When did you ever let that get in the way of airing your prejudices? It's all too easy to blame yesterday's government for today's problems - no-one, not even you, can say with 100% certainty that the same problems would not have arisen under a different administration.

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Curious where this shop was located

The original poster's later comments are eerily familiar. In the context, I can see that it's important to give people an opportunity to vent their feelings about this issue. Just in case Becky comes along and starts warning people to take this kind of thing to the Time Out discussion group, could I ask what services can an accountant  provide to a business caught up in the situation - aside from the potentially ominious recommendation to call in an administrator?

Recent events also make me wonder whether we shouldn't be digging back into our business continuity handbook to help accountants and their clients plan for unthinkable situations like this week's riots?

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09th Aug 2011 20:30

Hi John 

Hi John 

I think it was mention earlier about insurance, but years ago one of my clients lost all their stock due to a fire, they did get paid some money but they were seriously under insured.  The main think for accountants is to advise their clients to make sure their insurance policy covers everything that your stock is correctly valued as that is the mistake my client made. Their stock was undervalued by 50%.  This client went for another insurer cheaper but had,nt really compared like on like.

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By BKD
09th Aug 2011 19:44

Don't cut corners

sarah douglas wrote:

This client went for another insurer cheaper but had,nt really compared like on like.

Exactly the point I was making above - you get what you pay for

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 19:46

Curious where this shop was locatedJohn Stokdyk  Right in the middle of Tottenham, not that far from White Hart Lane. Unfortunately they sell electrical goods, which seems to be a prime target for looters.

 

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09th Aug 2011 21:49

I was being facetious..

Had to look that one up.

But the analogy was made in the Telegraph (where else) some days ago. I'll leave it to you to decide the merits of interdiction in regimes abroad while doing sod all to protect businesses at home from their own population.

Personally, I blame 13 years of labour government's errosion of the role of the father figure in society.

"I don't expect my children to love me, but they do obey me".

(Maximus Decidius Meridius: AD43)

QED.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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By Old Greying Accountant
09th Aug 2011 22:20

I agree with PennyC, to a point ...

... The labour government was appalling, how they ever got 3 terms in office probably explains the events of the last few days, but, the rot had set in years before. The policies of the 13 years of labour just accelerated and exacerbated the downward spiral, it didn't cause it.

I do wonder how the abolition of grammar schools contributed to this (they went 2 years before I went to senior school, my elder brother being in the last year to sit the 11 plus). When I left school in the early eighties it was already endemic, the 1st years lack of respect was noticable in comparisson to the 5th and 6th formers, both to older pupils, to teachers and to the public.

Personally, I think it goes back to the 60's, many still had the 50's values they were brought up with, but many were becoming more permissive. Whilst in itself no bad thing, many lacked the ability to understand that permissiveness was not the same as hedonism, and that all acts should be thought through in terms of their impact on others - it did not mean do as you like and sod everyone else, as too many did interpret it.

Naively, you might think with 3 generations on the dole, there would be a surfeit of adults to keep the kids on the straight and narrow!

Luckily, when I was at school standards were reasonable, so no dictionary needed.

MMI - you never did let on - is it an MGC?

 

 

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By PennyC
09th Aug 2011 22:46

No axe to grind

Old Greying Accountant wrote:

... The labour government was appalling, how they ever got 3 terms in office probably explains the events of the last few days, but, the rot had set in years before. The policies of the 13 years of labour just accelerated and exacerbated the downward spiral, it didn't cause it.

For the avoidance of doubt, I was not singling out the Tories. I just find it laughable that on each change of administration, the new government and its supporters claim that everything positive that came out of the previous one was a legacy of the pre-previous one, whereas every problem was of the previous government's own making. Anyone that gets caught up in, and believes, such spin is blinkered indeed. And where such prejudice is so deep-rooted, there is no point in attempting to have a rational discussion.

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By Top_Cat
09th Aug 2011 23:38

Not so daft OGA

Perhaps OGA that is because it takes years for a good government to build something worthwhile, but only a few months for a bad government to destroy it.

 

 

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10th Aug 2011 08:59

@PennyC

Memories are short, and unlike most things, we tend to remember the bad changes, rather than the good.

There isn't a single government (in my memory) that has fulfilled their promises. They each manage something good, and something appalling! The worst PM in my living memory was Maggie Thatcher. I know she has her fans, but she also has to be the most hated PM in living memory among the majority of our countrymen (and women),

Please note: I am not singling out one party as being better (or worse) than any other. They think they can perform miracles, and then realise reality is rather different.

PennyC has it spot on. Whichever party is in power, they will blame the previous government for the problems, and take the credit themselves for anything good.

Do you REALLY expect any government to be open & honest? The last few years have shown where their priorities lie.

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Some strong and reasonable debate here

and, yes, I do agree with many contributors, politicians are seen to be very shallow and self-centred and "glow" in the, seemingly, celebrity status. Honestly, can anyone take Boris Johnson seriously?

I have to agree with the general consensus that, family erosion, over the last 30 years or so, has much to answer for the current predicament. Whilst it's no excuse, successive administrations have simply papered over the cracks and never really tackled how kids are; brought up and educated. The lack of work and hope, for many young people must simply be too much and, without excusing any of this violence and thuggery, society does have to share some of the blame for what can only be described as the beginnings of, long term, civil disturbance.

 

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10th Aug 2011 10:07

I had a conversation with an acquaintance who could well be Top Cat, they certainly share similar political views. I suspect she votes as she does because that's how her parents voted, she certainly never thinks Labour did anything for the country and refused point blank to accept the current Govt strategy could create any problems (even though no-one had said it had at that point). Her well thought out response was to "deport them all to the Afghan Hills".

I tell you this because this is a person who in the time I have known her has had 2 businesses. One where she put the vast majority of her household expenses (including not one but two au pairs) through the business and according to her no restriction was made. The second a bar where the takings from one till never went through the books. If anyone epitomises what is wrong with this country it is her. At the time she was living in an expensive house and driving a Hummer.  They lost the lot. She sees herself as a victim of the last Govt, not on par with benefit scroungers. She even complained that the garage they sold the Hummer to didn't give them back the VAT they paid when they bought it! Apaprently she lost her business and home not because she lived outside what she could afford (even with the tax evasion) but because Gordon Brown made it too difficult. It is the sense of "I am entitled no matter what" thatis coming through in these riots. It crosses political idealogy.

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By Old Greying Accountant
10th Aug 2011 10:39

Top Cat ...

... I agree.

We went through years of pain under Maggie and subsequent administrations as they cut out the excesses and bloat from the previous regime. Yes they made some mistakes, the selling of council housing stock being the main one (compounded by the fact it was given away), but the economy had got through that, got to a very strong position only for the rug to be pulled by Tony Blair and his spin doctors.

The strength the economy was in at that time surprised even me as it managed to endure so many years of abuse before crumbling, in many ways unfortunately, as an earlier demise may have spared us the third and most damaging term.

As for my politics, I vote to keep labour out, rather than put anyone in power as they are all a waste of space these days, there are no great statesmen anymore, but some are less of a waste of space than others. 

Oh, and you should take Boris Johnson very seriously and look beyond the charade of his public image.

 

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By Old Greying Accountant
10th Aug 2011 10:41

I'm still trying to think ...

... of something positive out of the labour government.

Anwers on a postage stamp please!

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By BKD
10th Aug 2011 10:58

"We went through years of pain under Maggie"

Ain't that the truth!

For example, I don't recall the Poll Tax being inherited from any previous administration

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By Top_Cat
10th Aug 2011 11:09

ShirleyM  - "There isn't a single government (in my memory) that has fulfilled their promises. They each manage something good, and something appalling! The worst PM in my living memory was Maggie Thatcher. I know she has her fans, but she also has to be the most hated PM in living memory among the majority of our countrymen (and women),"

 

 

You really wouldnt expect me to agree with you would you Shirley?  In my opinion Maggie was the best PM Britain has ever had. It's a toss up between Blair, Brown & Wilson for the prize as worst.

I met Maggie more than once at party conferances and she really was amazing. The depth of knowledge she had of any issue you care to name was staggering.

However, on a more general note, one simple fact says everything for me. Every Conservative government in my lifetime has left the country better off than when it took power, every labour government has left it worse off.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

 

Returning to the riots, it is clear that there are not enough police, and never will be, to put sufficient numbers on every street in every city. Last night saw "copy cat" looting in places like Gloucester (hardly thought of as a deprived poor area).  These are criminals seizing an opportunity to steal. They are not "protestors" and should not be treated as such.

I believe we will see a rise in vigilante action as the public protects itself. Certainly if I saw a shop owner giving one of these criminals a good hiding I wouldnt have seen a thing - honest officer.

I also believe that we will see some form of restrictions on social networking.  I understand that blackberries cant be monitored (dont understand the technicalities) but it seems to me that if, as is suggested, this is how these criminals are coordinating their actions, then the obvious answer is to close down the network.

More long term, I believe we need to rip up the restrictions placed on teachers, parents, and indeed everyone else to discipline children. We need to strengthen the punishments handed out by courts. And, where children are below the age of criminal responsibility we need to bring in the power to prosecute the parents as they are responsible for the actions of their offspring.

I also believe that covering your face in public should be made an arrestable offence.

 

 

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10th Aug 2011 18:49

TC is Right Again

  <More long term, I believe we need to rip up the restrictions placed on teachers, parents, and indeed everyone else to discipline children. We need to strengthen the punishments handed out by courts. And, where children are below the age of criminal responsibility we need to bring in the power to prosecute the parents as they are responsible for the actions of their offspring.

I also believe that covering your face in public should be made an arrestable offence. >

Words of wisdom, Top_Cat. Especially that last one.  I cannot understand why there was not a statement made that anyone with their face covered or head hooded would be arrested and taken into custody for questioning.  This from day one.  It is so obvious.   All parents should be held responsible for their offsprings' actions up to 16 years of age, also obvious.  No excuses.

TheAncientOne. 

 

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By BKD
10th Aug 2011 19:19

Hidden agenda

weaversmiths wrote:

 

I also believe that covering your face in public should be made an arrestable offence.

Words of wisdom, Top_Cat. Especially that last one. 

Problem is, I suspect [removed by mod] is again alluding to another type of facial covering in the hope that it sparks yet another controversial discussion.

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I think Maggie came second ...

behind Churchill in the 'greatest PM of the 20th century' poll. Safe to say she must divide people! Having grown up in the strike strewn chaos of the 70's and started work in the 80's I can only say that the world was a different and better place in 1989 that it was in 1979 and she has to be the one to take credit for that. 

As for council house sell offs ... well I for one might still be living in one had my dad not seen there was something better for us in 1983. Now, I and my two brothers all own our own homes and their 5 children are also home owners. Overnight she changed the life expectations of millions.

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By CEL
10th Aug 2011 11:39

Maggie introduced the 'me' culture with the I have rights but no responsibilities to society.  She is the one who destroyed society and now we are paying for it.

OGA - National Minimum Wage

 

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By Old Greying Accountant
10th Aug 2011 11:40

What is it with the Poll Tax ...

... or more correctly, Community Charge?

 Personally, I think it was a good idea in principle. Why should a family of 4 adults contribute the same to the council as a couple, bearing in mind it was only persons over 18 who paid 100% - the unemployed and those in full time education had an 80% discount. Funny how they could all find the money for cigarettes and alcohol, but not their community charge, even though they were probably the biggest users of council services.

Bearing in mind perviously those in large houses paid vast amounts of rates but made very little use of council services, most probably only having refuse collected, as they used private health care and paid for private education of their children. A system Mr Cable would like re-introduced with his mansion tax, failing to comprehend that a large house does not equate to large disposable income, as many prefer to invest in their residence rather than restaurants hotels and airlines. 

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By Old Greying Accountant
10th Aug 2011 11:45

NMW...

... right!

Me me me, the labour cabinet learned their lesson well then!

The lesson I learned was that no one owes you anything, but if you work hard you have (should have) the right to choose how you spend the fruits of your labour.

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By BKD
10th Aug 2011 11:47

Time Out

It's pretty obvious where this discussion is headed

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10th Aug 2011 11:57

Gaw blimey mate, you're darlin' 'arold

If only Alf Garnett were here to contribute (although he might be).

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