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IRIS costs

I'm a new practice and am just about to sign up to Iris.  As reflected in many of the threads here the licence costs are very expensive in comparison to competitors but, having done my research (and having used Iris previously when I worked as an employee in practice), I have decided that the efficiencies it offers make it worth the expense.

The sales rep I've been dealing with has told me that "regrettably" he has absolutely no room for manouever on the cost and that every subscriber to Iris is subject to exactly the same fee structure. 

He's quoted me £744 + VAT for a 10 business (plus 20 personal) licence and a further £152 + VAT for a 10 client company secretarial licence.

Unsurprisingly I can't find any pricing information at all on the Iris website, so before I sign my life away on this could anyone confirm that this is the fixed price for this licence and that there really is no room for negotiation?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

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17th Nov 2010 13:37

I started on the light user 10 pack too....

it looks about right....although as an incentive they did offer me 15 mths for the price of 12....so may be worth asking (and suggesting that the prices don't quite stack up against the oposition so you were looking for any 'help' to buy.

And yep whilst it is expensive there is no doubt it is a very complete system.....but just watch, the price does rise steeply when you go through the next few levels....but the time savings represented by an integrated system should hopefully make up for this.

 

 

 

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17th Nov 2010 13:47

Thanks "justsotax".  He did briefly run me through the price structure for higher volume licences and it seemed that although they did get considerably more expensive the per client price was a lot cheaper (although I guess this doesn't really work at the start when you just go over your existing licence limit by one or two).

Glad to hear that you've had a generally positive experience with the software though.

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17th Nov 2010 13:50

yes

the costs are negotiable, thats why they don't publish them, however as the previous poster said they are more likely to throw in an extra month or three rather than droping the price.

I can add that I am no that pleased with Iris's customer service ... and they recently had massive bugs in system ..which first they denied ...then they took forever to fix them ... there are still a few bugs with capital allowances which they are yet to sort out! In the past we've even had to wait 10 mins for someone to answer the phone!

Their general atritude has become like that of SAGE ... too big to care about the little guy.

 

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17th Nov 2010 15:12

Wrong time

@Chaddesley - if it helps, the most successful start-up I worked with started with IRIS from day one. 

They knew it was not cheap and like you, they knew how to use it in a previous job. What they did was focus all their time and energy on external issues like marketing, pricing and customer service. Even if IRIS is not the best system or the best value it works and you know how to use it so go for it.

Warning - the firms that struggle with practice development seem focussed on being perfect internally when that matters very little. It is not about being super efficient but highly effective. 

What I do recommend you do is explore the IRIS outsourcing operation to see how this can help you get competitive advantage and invest time/energy learning to sell and market your practice. Aim on paying IRIS tens of thousands of pounds and then negotiate.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing for Accountants

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By geoffmw
17th Nov 2010 18:20

Why does AW

allow bob harper to continually market his business? Can he be removed please.

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17th Nov 2010 19:50

Or ...

Hi Chaddesley

I did the same as you when I started up about 3 1/2 years ago, I signed up with IRIS as they were what I knew and I thought they were worth the extra money, although I hadn't actually compared prices at that time, I just knew they were more expensive.

As I reached each of the next levels the fees jumped up significantly until I found I was paying about £220 per month even though my business was still relatively small.

Then at the beginning of this year I looked around and signed up with Keytime Software for about £90 per month and this includes unlimited accounts clients, unlimited tax returns and 10 Corporation Tax returns. Once you go past the 10 Corporation Tax clients the fee increases by £105 plus vat per annum (about £10 per month).

Had I stayed with IRIS the fees would have increased again as I was approaching the next level so the difference would have increased again.

The changeover from IRIS to Keytime was dead simple and I don't miss IRIS one little bit plus the saving on the fees can be spent on much more important things.

Good luck in the new practice and I hope you make the right decision about your software provider.

Dave

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17th Nov 2010 19:55

Marketing

 Not every question is to do with marketing

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17th Nov 2010 20:54

External

@Geoffmw - I appreciate my input here is not welcomed by some. I have no idea if you are the majority or minority but I did get an email today from a guy who thanked me for my AW comments!

I am careful not to actively promote any services and just comment where I feel relevant. This post struck me because it is a start up which could make the mistake that others have made which is to focus on internal stuff when external issues, like effective pricing, packaging, branding and customer service is really what matters. Get this right and the software cost is irrelevant. Get is wrong and margins will be tight and a few hundred quid a month seems a lot.

You may be aware of my marketing strategy of buying all clients bookkeeping software and bundling this for free with training and coaching into a fixed fee. Yes, this pushes the software costs up per client but it also doubles/trebles the recovery rates and enhances the firms proposition.

The firm I referred to above grew by £100k a year for four years without spending a lot on marketing. Having said that, I will mention keytime to them.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

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17th Nov 2010 20:57

What is marketing?

@Peter - am I only allowed to post where the OP uses the word marketing?

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

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17th Nov 2010 22:04

Bob Harper is spamming Any Answers

“am I only allowed to post where the OP uses the word marketing?”

I said: “Not every question is to do with marketing”

If you think that has anything to do with whether the word "marketing" is in the post then you cannot think logically.

Your attitude is that if any question is about marketing then you will talk about marketing and if any post is not about marketing you will say that marketing is more important than the subject asked.

It is time AccountingWeb stopped your activities.

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17th Nov 2010 22:18

Its OK Bob

you add a different slant to the forum, besides what is wrong with marketing?

Back to the topic, there is no harm in trying to negotiate but why not consider some alternatives as the price you are thinking of paying is actually quite mad when you see what is out there. 

Virtual Tax Support for accountants: www.rossmartin.co.uk

 

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17th Nov 2010 22:32

Some people use AccountingWeb to clogg it up with spam

“what is wrong with marketing?”

I’m not saying anything is wrong with marketing.

For the benefit of those who either don’t understand my point or pretend not to understand my point, I am saying that Bob shouldn’t be allowed to see every question as a reason to say that the questioner shouldn’t be bothering about their issue but instead be concentrating on marketing.

I hope the above has made my stance clearer to the people who didn’t understand it before.

Not every question has a tax angle either!

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17th Nov 2010 22:35

Stick to the script

@Peter - I know what you said and now I know what you mean. It would be much easier if you just came out with it the first time.

But, even better and more in line with the forum rules is that you address comments to what the topic. You and I have cross swords before. We don't like each other....it usually ends up with you turning nasty and referring to a liquidated company and I comment on how poor your Website is. So, I’ve done both, no what?

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing
 

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17th Nov 2010 23:13

The Apprentice

Bob, have you ever been on "The Apprentice"?

Just joking of course but different people go about business in different ways as demonstrated by the people who do go on the TV show.

I think certain people get irritated by your comments because you come at everything from the same angle and each thread becomes about Marketing.

Far better for you to use your expertise in this area to give quality Marketing advice when someone asks for it rather than use multiple threads to talk about how Marketing may help. Sometimes it causes the thread to become difficult to follow and is not fair on the OP who is just looking for a straightforward answer to a straightforward question.

I have given my opinion on accounting software in this thread, anyone else who may be able to help the OP should do so and let him make his own judgement.

If he wants Marketing advice next then so be it ... I know a man who would be able to help him out!!

 

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By JC
18th Nov 2010 07:09

Solution to spamming suggestions ..

Easy solution - do not allow anyone to post a link for their own site unless there is an article on that site directly relevant to the current thread. Simply put the 'posted by' at the foot of the posting and leave it at that

This would affect @Bob Harper and also others (@Nichola Ross Martin in this thread)

In part this approach is all about SEO and trying to raise rankings in Google etc. and arguably spam by trying to drive traffic to the specified URL (nigeria 419 scam - happens in your emails every day)

Alternatively just let the site degenerate into a 'honey pot' and have everyone post 'non entries' (if you own a blog you see them every day & have to remove them) for the sake of including their own URL
 

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18th Nov 2010 07:53

No software

@JC - another way of looking at this is that personal criticism is what drags the site down. Why not just take the rough with the smooth, stick to the debate about the issues and opinions rather that the personalities? 

@Bigdave1971 - couple of thoughts.

When I answer questions I often do that from a different perspective to the person answering the question. I am seriously thinking of a re-brand; away from marketing because it is too narrow. Accountants think they do not need marketing because they are busy and assume marketing is about winning clients when it is often about fewer clients! And, when I work with firms all sorts of issues come up, usually around planning and people. So, maybe I should be Portfolio Practice Improvement because that is really what is about.

Back to the issue raise by the OP and why I decided to post:

We are moving away from the service economy into the knowledge and experience economy. Accountants need to completely rethink what and how they do what they do. This requires a mindset shift. 

If the OP goes about practice development like a typical accountant, he will struggle (in my opinion). Looking at operational software and seeing if he can save a few quid suggests he may be doing this. I could be wrong but someone else reading may get the point.

By the way, is one option not buy any software and outsource all the work?

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing for Accountants
 

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18th Nov 2010 08:13

Cowboy highjacking Any Answers

[email protected] - I know what you said and now I know what you mean. It would be much easier if you just came out with it the first time.”

I said enough the first time but you chose to feign ignorance.

“But, even better and more in line with the forum rules is that you address comments to what the topic.”

I do – until you try to turn the subject to become an advert for your unwanted services.

“You and I have cross swords before. We don't like each other....it usually ends up with you turning nasty and referring to a liquidated company and I comment on how poor your Website is. So, I’ve done both, no what?”

Turning nasty? You mean you used to push your company on here about how great your idea was until it went bust?

Comment on my website as much as you want. It’s not like I’m saying it’s great. My priority is to do work for my clients. All I know is I don’t need to take every opportunity and non-opportunity to mention my website or what I can do for people. I’m sure you are aware of the advice of how to spot a cowboy – they spend all their time trying to get work instead of having people come to them from recommendation.

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18th Nov 2010 08:16

Braggards

"Bob, have you ever been on "The Apprentice"?

Just joking of course but different people go about business in different ways as demonstrated by the people who do go on the TV show."

I see the similarity. They spend all their time saying how good they are and then mess up the simplist things.

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18th Nov 2010 08:29

Hey!
Cowboy highjacking Any Answers ?

I should resent that remark! I'm not taking AW anywhere...

I do tend to concur that personal links should not form part of answering queries.  The joy of this forum is that it feels like it is impartial.  If a representative of IRIS (or Sage etc) were to be contributing to this discussion and including a link to their latest special offers, would that be any different.  AW carries paid advertising and in Bob's case it sometimes does feel like the forum is carrying free advertising.  I'm unsure whether this is intentional but for a marketing pro to be using a marketing trick certainly colours my opinion of his advice.

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By JC
18th Nov 2010 08:52

Nothing to do with personal criticism ...

@Bob Harper - you have your own blog so how would you feel if someone used it to advertise their own site at every opportunity?

Their postings would not really need to be entirely 'on topic' although that is inevitably a value judgement - but if they entered 2-3 comments (with associated link) against every item in your blog re-directing users elsewhere, would this be acceptable?

Would you leave the free advertising (3rd party URL links) on your own site or remove it?

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.

We have some quality contributions from people "selling" on this site from Nicola, Rebecca et al, who demonstrate their knowledge admirably.

We also have Bob.

As for Iris, I have never quite understood how if you pay best part of £1000 for this software, its going to return that to you for just 10 clients vs other software that isnt quite as snazzy. We have about 80 ltd cos, 200 self assessments. Apart from the normal digita/tax calc software in terms of management tools, we run the lot on two spreadsheets, one listed by ltd company year end date with colour codes for who's desk its on, and one listing out SA records, sorted in alpha order that are are moved up between pending/assistant/review/sent/filed as appropriate. Saved about £5k in software costs vs prehaps (at most) £500 in extra wages for cross typing between systems over the course of the year. Then again we dont do management consultants, we just do work and keep costs to the minimum.

 

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18th Nov 2010 09:35

Still going on

@Peter - that’s more it, feel better now?  By the way, happy Christmas to you as well.

Just keep in mind that there is a difference between a limited company and the strategy/technology. That is still going strong and we are re-launching next year!

@JC - anyone can post on my blog provided they post relevant value.

Bob Harper

Portfolio marketing for accountants

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18th Nov 2010 10:07

Then we have..

@ireallyshouldkn - there are accountants who want to build an enterprise business and deliver maximum value to clients.

Then we have the technicians who stick to compliance and try and squeeze margin from a shrinking market.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing for Accountants
 

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18th Nov 2010 10:18

Iris v Digita

“Looking at operational software and seeing if he can save a few quid suggests he may be doing this.”

The OP didn’t look like he was trying to go for the cheap option. He wouldn’t be looking at Iris if he was. I would suggest that the OP was more concerned about the pricing at various numbers of clients.

Iris seems well thought out software although it has some problems especially with support.

I choose Digita because they seemed more understanding of their customers. Their support response was very good. They seem to have expanded rapidly and for a while their support couldn’t keep up. My last few experiences suggest they may be returning to their old response levels. What I particularly like about Digita is that their pricing mainly seems to be in bands of 25 at the lower levels and the programs are priced individually. Therefore, you could have 25 limited companies and 100 personal taxpayers or vice versa. You only have to pay more as the individual program passes the limit. For example, presently the number of personal taxpayers is well over my limit but I can still enter their details in practice management and I won’t have to pay more until I need to prepare personal tax returns.

 

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18th Nov 2010 10:33

Some contributors

“We have some quality contributions from people "selling" on this site from Nicola, Rebecca et al, who demonstrate their knowledge admirably.

We also have Bob.”

Rebecca doesn’t put a link to her site and always comes up with something relevant.

Nichola always comes up with something relevant too and I think she puts a link to her website usually because she refers to something relevant that is on her site.

Bob’s behaviour is totally different to Rebecca’s and Nichola’s.

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18th Nov 2010 10:43

Some know the market and some guess at the market

"@ireallyshouldkn - there are accountants who want to build an enterprise business and deliver maximum value to clients.

Then we have the technicians who stick to compliance and try and squeeze margin from a shrinking market."

Accountants who want to "deliver maximum value to clients" usually don't know the basics.

I do a lot of compliance and I don't think my market is shrinking or suffers from reduced margins. People will pay for a good service. My clients are always asking me for tax and business advice but they don't usually look for that first. They want to know their accounts and tax are getting sorted.

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18th Nov 2010 11:05

Needs and wants

@Peter - accountants who want to deliver maximum value pay others to do the basics and they understand that clients do not want accounts they NEED them so they go deeper and wider.

As for the market more competition and smarter technology. You may make it to the end but that doesn't mean what you do is right for a start up.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing 

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shrinking market?

Maybe yours is Bob, but mine is quite the opposite.

There is a huge and more or less limitless market for decent price no nonsense accounts and compliance for small business with efficent personal service and free (yes bob, free) business advice. 

Not everyone wants to build an emprie. I prefer niche myself.

 

 

 

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18th Nov 2010 11:26

Thanks Dave

Thanks for the kind comments about Keytime, glad we could help.

/end hijack

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18th Nov 2010 11:26

Alignment

@Ireallyshouldkn - wrong way around; free accounts, charge for the business advice and link the overall fee to the result.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing 

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18th Nov 2010 11:31

How much does Bob know?

[email protected] - accountants who want to deliver maximum value pay others to do the basics and they understand that clients do not want accounts they NEED them so they go deeper and wider.”

I do what my clients want or need. I’m not going to pay somebody to do a bad job or leave soon. I see lots of clients who have used other accountants and then come to me and after I do the job they say the previous accountant was a cowboy (yes again) and I do a good and thorough job and they will stay with me. Some people may look for the cheapest accountant but eventually they realise their error.

As for the market more competition and smarter technology. You may make it to the end but that doesn't mean what you do is right for a start up.

What is right for a start up is what is right for them and not what is right for you.

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heh

"@Ireallyshouldkn - wrong way around; free accounts, charge for the business advice and link the overall fee to the result.

Bob Harper"

Thats funny. 

I take it you have never actualy worked in practice?

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18th Nov 2010 13:12

Quality work or cheap talk?

[email protected] - accountants who want to deliver maximum value pay others to do the basics and they understand that clients do not want accounts they NEED them so they go deeper and wider.”

I do what my clients want or need. I’m not going to pay somebody to do a bad job or leave soon. I see lots of clients who have used other accountants and then come to me and after I do the job they say the previous accountant was a cowboy (yes, again) and I do a good and thorough job and they will stay with me. Some people may look for the cheapest accountant but eventually they realise their error.

“As for the market more competition and smarter technology. You may make it to the end but that doesn't mean what you do is right for a start up.

What is right for a start up is what is right for them and not what is right for you.”

Your attitude seems to be employ low quality staff (eg. Indian call centres) because you think that will result in more profit. You fail to see that client’s will leave in droves when they realise the quality of work performed is different to the marketing-speak in your advertising.

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18th Nov 2010 13:14

Blame

"Thats funny. 

I take it you have never actualy worked in practice?"

Bob did work in practice. It was another of his unsuccessful ventures in which he blamed other people for his failure!

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18th Nov 2010 13:23

Strategy

@peter - what do I know? Exactly what you are.

@ireaalyshouldnk - I have worked in practice. The last firm offered free year-end accounts and they are not the only firm that does this as part of the pricing strategy.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

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18th Nov 2010 13:35

Failure is so easy for some; they even specialise in it

"@peter - what do I know? Exactly what you are."

What do you think I am?

"@ireaalyshouldnk - I have worked in practice. The last firm offered free year-end accounts and they are not the only firm that does this as part of the pricing strategy."

Why did you leave your last firm which was in practice?

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18th Nov 2010 14:35

Two different things

@peter - have you ever reviewed the work done by IRIS in India?

The accountants who have tell me the working papers are better than what they produce. Probably not as good as yours but the point/attitude is to drive down the cost of grunt work using technology and outsourcing to free the accountants to focus on the key issues of the business. 

Me - I sold my shares to peruse a more entrepreneurial activity, being a partner in a High-Street firm is not really for me. 

You - (from your Website) Peter Saxton who started his own practice and twenty four years ago and is still using the same name. 

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

 

 

 

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18th Nov 2010 15:06

India

[email protected] - have you ever reviewed the work done by IRIS in India?

The accountants who have tell me the working papers are better than what they produce. Probably not as good as yours but the point/attitude is to drive down the cost of grunt work using technology and outsourcing to free the accountants to focus on the key issues of the business.”

I’ve heard of some outsourcing work done by Indians and they would make guesses at the analysis. I have a “queries” column and that has to be zero before the accounts are prepared. I have a standard format of spreadsheets – they are adjusted to suit the client’s data. I feel the ETB being linked to journals and analysis sheets provides the most efficient way of producing accounts for clients who don’t want to or are not able to prepare their own accounts.

“You - (from your Website) Peter Saxton who started his own practice and twenty four years ago and is still using the same name. “

There’s a lot more to me than that.

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18th Nov 2010 15:30

Working papers

@peter - your working papers sound the same as the example I have. They cost £50 when the clients uses our software is used to do the bookkeeping.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing for Accountants

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By mwngiol
18th Nov 2010 16:17

Hmm

Why are people so hung up on Bob's previous failed business? Now I'm far from being Bob's biggest fan, or even a fan at all, but some of the most successful clients I deal with have been involved in failed businesses in the past. What matters is that the lessons which need to be learned are learned. Past failure can be crucial to future success, it shouldn't be a stick to beat someone up with.

On the flip side, what I would say to Bob is that just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean that they are wrong or that they can't or won't be successful. I think the main reason some people seem to have taken a strong dislike to you is that you speak as if your way is the only way and anyone who does things differently is a fool who is doomed to failure.

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18th Nov 2010 16:37

Right and wrong

@mwngiol - failure and success are subjective and personal and I do not think I have ever said anyone is a fool or doomed to failure although I say people are wrong when if they think time is where value is and looking internally for profitability. The answers lie externally and it is why I made a comment.  

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

 

 

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By mwngiol
18th Nov 2010 16:43

Fair enough

You've never said it exactly in those words, but that's the way you come across. To me anyway!

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18th Nov 2010 16:44

Why?

"Why are people so hung up on Bob's previous failed business? Now I'm far from being Bob's biggest fan, or even a fan at all, but some of the most successful clients I deal with have been involved in failed businesses in the past. What matters is that the lessons which need to be learned are learned. Past failure can be crucial to future success, it shouldn't be a stick to beat someone up with."

Bob used to go on about how his business was fantastic even when it was about to go bust. I think he even said it more stridently.

When it went bust he blamed the accountants for the failure.

We hear similar comments now. He's recommended people risk every penny to use his techniques.

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18th Nov 2010 17:11

Facts

@Peter - the issue is not my old company but the software/strategy it sold and that is working really well. All the firms that “get it” are going from strength to strength.

I still believe it is the best model out there for an accountant interested in implementing the E-Myth strategy (building a business which doesn’t depend on the owner) and we will be re-releasing in 2011 but only to start-up and young firms and we will not be charging anything for the software for the first 12 months.

Yes, I do blame the firms that did nothing or executed poorly because a) that was the basis of the agreement/price (we developed they implemented) and b) firms all over the UK are being successful so I know it works.

I recommend start-ups fund their enterprise appropriately so they can afford to launch properly. I advise people to budget for at least £30k to £50k because they need to pay themselves and buy in resources when they get going. My fee can be as low at £175 or £15,000 plus depending on what I do. I will only take one or two large contracts a year for firms that want to grow at £50,000 to £100,000 a year.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

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By Luke
18th Nov 2010 17:31

I normally avoid getting involved in these 'discussions' but can

“You - (from your Website) Peter Saxton who started his own practice and twenty four years ago and is still using the same name. “

Can I ask what is wrong with that?  I am a little confused as to where the problem is, as long as he'd not intended to go multinational.  Whilst some wish to expand, not everyone does and that doesn't make them a non-entity.

Luke

(who uses his own name Ltd as a practice name, works on his own and has no plans to expand and will be very happy to be the same in 24 years time)

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18th Nov 2010 18:08

Difference

@Luke - major difference between you and Peter is that you have not appointed yourself as a moderator here, trying to me kicked off AW, trying to undermine my comments with references to a liquidated company, suggesting I advise clients to risk every penny with me and misrepresenting what I say.

Until you try there is a big difference between you and Peter even though you seem to share the same business model. All I would say is that I hope your do more than accounts and tax returns for 24 years, that just seems a bit of a waste opportunity.

Do you mind me asking how old  you are?

Bob Harper

Portfolio marketing


 

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18th Nov 2010 18:25

Lies, lies and more lies

“you have not appointed yourself as a moderator here,

trying to me kicked off AW,

trying to undermine my comments with references to a liquidated company,

suggesting I advise clients to risk every penny with me

and misrepresenting what I say.”

Bob

Now you are just resorting to your defence of lying.

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By Luke
18th Nov 2010 19:35

To clarify

I was really asking what was wrong with the business model that Peter and I share, not what is wrong with the man himself! (I should add here that I have no comments about Peter other than to say that personally I have found his contributions useful over the times I've been using aweb.)

Anyway, my point is that not all of us want to expand and rule the accounting world, and for those of us who do want to run a very small practice, our choice even though less ambitious than some is equally valid.

To answer your question, I am 37 and have worked in and out of practice, with the longest stint being with a big 4 firm for 7.5yrs.  My current choice is lifestyle based around our young children, between my other half and I we earn enough money to be comfortable in a decent house in a decent area, although nowhere near the levels we could be earning if we'd kept to the original career paths.  To us, spending time with the family is much more important and well worth the £60-£80k pa we have dropped between us to do so.

Whilst most of my work is accounts and tax returns, I do also give a fair bit of advice and I get great satisfaction out of getting involved with the businesses that are my clients and helping them grow.  I, sadly or not!, also actually enjoy doing accounts and tax returns.  To be honest, I can't tell you what I'll be doing in 24 years time, but I certainly would be happy to be in the position I am in now, in 10 years time.  By then, the eldest will be at university and the youngest nearly there, and it may be time to take stock and explore other possibilities.

Luke

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18th Nov 2010 20:06

.

Luke, your position is very similar to mine and I too enjoy preparing accounts and tax returns!! 

As my practice is based at home, the flexibility and the family time I am able to enjoy is something no-one who works 9-5 for their employer can have and I am always on hand if needed.

That said the flexibility comes at a cost. I am not able to work all hours God sends and my income is therefore to a certain extent restricted but the fact that I do what I love and have the family time I want means that it is worth the slightly lower income.

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18th Nov 2010 21:07

Ambition

@Peter - on numerous occasions you have done everything I mentioned including in this thread but this is the first time you have called me a liar. Still, it is sort of what I expect, like I said I know exactly what you are.

@Luke - there is nothing wrong with the business model of working alone but I believe you can achieve more through and enterprise practice/employing people. But, that is much harder and may not be worth the extra money, energy, time and risk. All depends on your personal goals.

Bob Harper

Portfolio Marketing

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