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Is The ICAEW Facing Long Term Decline?

Given the news today that the ICAEW is to make redundant a number of staff in order to reduce costs:

http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2238774/regional-staff-axed-institute-4525566

is it not the case that the ICAEW is being seriously squeezed by its chartered competitors, most notably the ACCA who are seeing strong growth in both student and membership numbers, whereas the ICAEW has seen student numbers fall significantly in the past decade.

Indeed, it looks likely that the ACCA will become the largest chartered body in the next 12 months in terms of membership, a boast which the ICAEW has been proud of for over 100 years.

If indeed the ICAEW are in long term decline is there anything they can do to reverse it?
Paul

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By Bil Loh
31st Mar 2009 03:58

In Feng Shui accountants, out traditional accountants
Tell me if my understanding corresponds with the 'out of box' thoughts going around.

Feng Shui accountants are defined as 'out of box' or 'out of circle' or 'out of square-headed' accountants.

Feng Shui looks into world-wide aspects as mentioned and their outlook must be above and beyond horizon in order to track down all elements that affects the Feng Shui of the environment.

If true, wow, I am a great 'out of box' accountant.

To summarise, the worse get worse, the strong get weaker, the mediocre get weak, the weak goes bust.

Therefore, I conclude merger must be done soon.

Based on all postings, merger is still in the minds of many.


Soon, we get to see which professional body withstand its test of time.


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By Anonymous
30th Mar 2009 11:21

Feng Shui accounting
Nowadays, with recession seeping into the economy, Feng Shui masters would reap good business.

I am sure we have professionally qualified RQBs in the Far East handling accounts of Feng Shui masters.

I wonder what applications of accounting principles do we apply in this Feng Shui project ;-

Feng Shui master employed to take on a project to check Feng Shui of a multinational conglomerate. Naturally, Feng Shui master take six months to tour the so many branches and sites of this big conglomerate as it has so many branches and sites spread all over the continents and some sites are in the jungles. This means a lot of time is needed to be spent going into the forest,jungles deep, so many branches overseas and locally..............

The Feng Shui master quoted a one time fee and question is how is the Feng Shui accountant going to account for the revenue? He just can't say "I guess this overseas visit is worth USD 2 million Feng Shui consultancy fees, the jungle forest deep Feng Shui assessment is worth USD 100 K, and so on. How do we apportion the work-in-progress.

Will the learned Feng Shui accountants please give your best shot at this question?

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27th Mar 2009 22:55

ANON
All sounds perfectly sensible to me!

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By Anonymous
27th Mar 2009 09:24

Back to LOGO again...........
Reference to the url http://www.accountancyage.com/accountancyage/news/2238774/regional-staff-axed-institute-4525566, what caught my eye is the LOGO. It shows a lady 'matador' but I thought this profession should be that of a GUY macho man/

Now that the LOGO has been in use, there is, perhaps, more criticisms against the ICAEW. Is this because the LOGO does not consitute Good FENG SHUI?

In ancient China, there is much said about the importance of Good FENG SHUI. Good Feng Shui help a trader flourish to become a millionaire. I was also told that many businessmen made use of Feng Shui principles to be and become successful.

Some say Feng Shui is logic, and indeed it is and further to that is Feng Shui works in line with the nature forces and this working hand-in-hand with nature creates HARMONY and thus, the business man prosper.

There was much said about the bad Feng Shui of another professional body's LOGO in that it resembles that of a broken egg. Meaning, the egg contents which is important and nutritious is spilling out of the broken hole of the egg. Make sense? Of course, it does, and this is indeed logic and in accordance with nature.

How can a broken egg contain its nutrients when it is broken? Logic - definitely, this broken egg can't. And now, let's take a look at this professional body - it has not achieved any significant growth since it started using that broken egg LOGO. Sorry, for telling what was observed and the truth about its growth rate over the so many years since this professional body achieved recognition.

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By Bil Loh
27th Mar 2009 08:14

I am glad to say that there is ..........
.........this splendid arrangement called EU's MRD, DM of the ACCA, MRA between the CA bodies (ICAS, ICAI, ICAC, CA (SA), ICAA, HKICPA,...) direct admission to some countries' recognised accountancy bodies, thus, if subscription of the ICAEW gets too expensive, members of the ICAEW could then move on to these bodies.

Alternatively, all recognised professional bodies in the UK should sit round to talk mergers again.

A merger of professional bodies would save lots of costs - there is synergy, a one-body profession, etc......

Imagine each professional body currently having their own research faculties, libraries, CPDs, exams, examiners......this is a lot of costs involved.

Save them!

But a problem with mergers is that someone has to go as CEO from the lesser dominant and popular bodies.

ICAEW should start the merger campaign now as it is still the most prestigious and dominant accountancy body in the UK.


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26th Mar 2009 09:24

ICAEW will be gone or too expensive in 30 years
Whenver I look around a training session run by CCH for effectively small ICAEW firms, I'm always struck by the paucity of two things: non-white faces and people under 45. The former may be a feature of racism or a feature of society when ICAEW last recruited a lot of people in the smaller firms. The latter certainly is. Coupled with the well known antipathy of a number of the larger firms to training too many chartered students as they are more expensive, and you have a recipe for a disastrous

Just like a society that fails to keep it's birth rate up: without a regular inflow of young people to work and provide income, life gets increasingly expensive for those of us left.

Hywel Williams
University of Glamorgan Business School

You may have seen a version of this comment in Accountancy magazine - they only printed half of it!

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25th Mar 2009 23:21

how about
short term

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By Anonymous
25th Mar 2009 17:34

Thoughts
I remember when I returned to the UK a few years ago seeing a recruitment manager at Robert Half and getting the following comment on the production of my CV:

' Very useful your qualifications ... but you're not a Chartered Accountant are you? We'll be in touch' ... they never were.

Says it all really

PS I'm a FCIS CTA TEP ATT

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25th Mar 2009 13:40

Easy exams
The best thing for high membership, as has been proved, is easy exams.

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23rd Mar 2009 09:54

Right time for merger talks again
At such a time, I felt it best for the ICAEW to merge.

Prospective bodies include the CPA Ireland and the AIA.

AIA's long standing overseas establishments would give a kick-start for the ICAEW to move in quickly and penetrate the market.

Moreover, this merger would probably gobble up the CEO position of the AIA who commented so much about AIA being classed under the second tier and later did not update its members or the accountingweb about further developments.

As for the CPA Ireland, it would be good to see a change in their leadership too as CPA being a leading body in the Ireland has not achieved much in terms of membership and overseas recognition.

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19th Mar 2009 16:17

Gareth
If you were employed by an accountancy body and/or in a position of power within that body, would you vote to give up your status for the 'greater good' of a merger? Just maybe that's why it doesn't happen. Too much vested interest.

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19th Mar 2009 14:17

Gareth
This is the real world. Would you sign your own death warrant?

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By Anonymous
19th Mar 2009 13:39

why save them?
why save a body that does nothing for its members, especially small practioners??

Not saying ACCA are any better but if one goes the other will surely buc up their ideas?

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