Leave mp required to negotiate

Leave mp required to negotiate

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Andrea Leadsom has just come to my attention.

I have no truck with the idea that Theresa May, having joined the remain campaign at the last minute, should be involved. Nor do I have any time for Michael Gove.

A quick read on AL shows an initial stay and reform person running the Fresh Start campaign during which the information gathered has persuaded her that reform will not happen for the better and leave was the only remaining option.

Heres a novel idea - lets back a person who has knowledge on the subject, hopefully common sense and who is not tainted by any of the past problems met by the Tory party.

Add to that someone who is prepared to look outside the box - who may even say lets not negotiate. Lets look at all the new opportunities already knocking on the door, at the same time as encouraging us to buy British as far as possible again and who knows how much better that will make the future look.

 

Replies (16)

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RLI
By lionofludesch
04th Jul 2016 07:24

Not negotiate ? I think we have to negotiate, if only to detach the many strings with which we've entangled ourselves over the last 43 years.

Thanks (3)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
04th Jul 2016 11:33

Untangle the strings certainly. But we do not have to have a tariff-free agreement with rEU (I suggest WTO tariffs look attractive from an UK viewpoint), free movement of labour between UK & rEU, or any UK contribution to the rEU budget.
RM

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By ollie
04th Jul 2016 14:25

Interested to know if anyone can think of an example of a country which has taken a conscious decision to reduce trade with its nearest neighbours and has enjoyed long-term economic benefits as a result.

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Replying to ollie:
By Duggimon
04th Jul 2016 14:46

South Korea?

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Replying to Duggimon:
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By ollie
06th Jul 2016 11:19

Thanks Duggimon. I don't know much about South Korea's policy on trading with its neighbours other than the fact that it signed a free trade agreement with China in June 2015. Maybe you thinking about its relationship with its other neighbours ? - please could you point me in the right direction.

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By Disabled Campaigner
04th Jul 2016 15:06

We need someone who will not be threatened and blackmailed by the EU bully boys, and who will stand up for the majority who voted leave.

The vote was for a end to free movement, an end to paying the EU, and an end to any EU interference whatsoever in UK affairs.

Leadsom has only been in parliament for 5 minutes, and is totally unsuitable.

Crabb is the same, zero experience,

Fox has failed previously and has never had an original thought in his life.

Gove has proven himself to be an untrustworthy back stabber who is being pushed by his wife. (Remind anyone of Cheri Blair?).

There is only one credible candidate. Experienced, tough, and straight talking.

Besides, how can Gove ever be PM? Whenever I see him his face reminds me of Donald Duck with a bad case of wind.

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By Marion Hayes
04th Jul 2016 15:45

Sorry DC - I fail to see why she is unsuitable - short time in politics is not a problem when most others are just professional politicians.
I agree with RM. We have to legislate to remove EU powers over us but that does not need their agreement. We have already got in place, and observe better than most, all of the EU standards as we always went over the top. So we cannot be excluded from trade on that grounds. Yes we could face tariffs but then can make better terms with non-EU customers/suppliers and being no longer dependant on ground transport relations with near neighbours is not a factor.
We should reinstate for all candidates the need for an employer to demonstrate that there is no suitable UK candidate before importing labour even when the job is just fruit picking etc.
Scotland thankfully wanted to remain part of the UK and I don't remember the proviso that it only applied to being in the EU too so no new referendum/negotiation there either.

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Replying to Marion Hayes:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
04th Jul 2016 16:19

Marion Hayes wrote:

We should reinstate for all candidates the need for an employer to demonstrate that there is no suitable UK candidate before importing labour even when the job is just fruit picking etc.
.

Great solution for both Labour and the Conservatives, I think both can clearly demonstrate they are in the position as described; where do you think we should advertise the party leadership vacancies?

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Replying to Marion Hayes:
keep calm and have a cuppa
By tbk
05th Jul 2016 16:55

but we also need a solution for people like my sister-in-law, who came to the UK as a schools language assistant, then married my brother 19 years ago and has lived here since, with their three children. as it stands now her only right to be here is under free movement

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Replying to tbk:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
05th Jul 2016 17:11

tbk wrote:

but we also need a solution for people like my sister-in-law, who came to the UK as a schools language assistant, then married my brother 19 years ago and has lived here since, with their three children. as it stands now her only right to be here is under free movement


Surely she (& many others) could now apply for permanent right to remain (for which there is an admin fee)?
RM
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By Disabled Campaigner
05th Jul 2016 10:35

There is no need for parliamentary discussion or legislation to remove Britain from the EU. Indeed any MP voting or arguing against the necessary steps would be spitting in the face of democracy as the Nation has spoken. By that I refer to the entire nation.

There was no facility in the referendum for sections of Britain to opt out. Indeed it was totally wrong that results were announced area at a time. It should have been one count for the entire UK.

I stand by my opinion that Leadsom lacks the experience to be PM. AS a member of the Conservative Party she will certainly not be getting my vote.

I see no reason why we must have a leave campaigner as PM. What we need is the best PM regardless of how they voted.

Quite clearly a Prime Minister cannot negotiate Brexit single handed, and, a sensible approach would be to appoint a cabinet minister to take responsibility for negotiating. That is the position which should be filled by a leave campaigner.

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Replying to Disabled Campaigner:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
05th Jul 2016 16:42

Disabled Campaigner wrote:

There is no need for parliamentary discussion or legislation to remove Britain from the EU.


There are I believe differing views among eminent lawyers as to the legal (as opposed to political) effect of the referendum vote & whether the UK PM requires express parliamentary authority to trigger Article 50.
Personally I would take the common sense & safety first view of passing a new & very brief Act authorising the PM to notify the EU of the triggering of Article 50 & repealing (with effect from a date to be announced) the European Communities Act 1972 & other EU legislation. There is no way on earth (politically) that MPs could fail to pass such an Act or the Queen could fail to give it Royal Assent.
It could be passed into law this week. Then there could be no argument about whether the PM had the necessary authority to trigger Article 50 (whenever he or she chooses to do that).
RM
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By Marion Hayes
05th Jul 2016 16:25

@DC - as I understand it there is legislation in place which gives European Law precedence so we need legislation to revoke it, and any other laws which preclude us from making our own decisions.
I agree that the vote should just have been one total but we will have to agree to differ on the PM and Leave credentials I expect.

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By Marion Hayes
06th Jul 2016 13:32

I hate the inclusion of comments in the wrong order (time-wise). It makes other comments seem to be repetitions or superfluous - and it is no clearer as to what you are answering|||
~I have just reread the thread for that reason and have indeed missed some of the comments.
So at the moment May and Leadsom are in the lead. How you can trust a PM who says we would be safer and more secure in Europe than without is tantamount to voting for Michael Foot when he pronounced that he would never give an order to send our troops into battle even if there were enemy soldiers running up the beach towards him.
Tariffs are a red herring too I think - we already have a 20% margin to play with as I assume once we have left Europe becomes outside the scope of VAT or whatever we call our sales tax in due course.
We already have higher standards in many areas than Europe require to enable us to sell to them and I assume we will insist that they meet our standards too if they want to sell to us. We are not that desperate despite the scare stories currently being pushed around the pound and the City.
@ tbk - people who are here and already part of our lives should not need to worry unless they carry out some crimes or actions we will not accept - such as the men grooming young girls recently convicted, mass exploitation, drugs or trafficking, and as the Home Secretary has failed to grasp that nettle TM is not a satisfactory leader. We need better sentencing and policing than she has provided for. I also hasten to add that these are not necessarily race based activities despite the press coverage to the contrary and every member of the gang should be dealt with as severely as possible. Non-UK persons should be deported either before or after doing time and UK persons imprisoned for as long as possible.
Money regulations on the transfer of funds in and out of the country need to be scrutinised to prevent crime - whether it is serious crime or benefits fraud - allowing our money to leave the country against out interests.
I am going to stop now as it is probably already too long for you to read without losing the thread - always assuming there was one.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Marion Hayes:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
06th Jul 2016 15:20

Marion

"Tariffs are a red herring too I think - we already have a 20% margin to play with as I assume once we have left Europe becomes outside the scope of VAT or whatever we call our sales tax in due course."

How is this the case business to business? Given what vat brings in not sure it can be waived away to compensate for any tariffs.

I also think tariffs will not be the issue, exchange rates will, over time , mainly cope and absorb, though transition will be painful and some business entities will suffer.

Compliance re standards, whole different kettle of fish, if we have a deal that allows goods complying to UK standards fine (UK standards legally accepted as EU equivalent) , if we have a deal with goods having to comply with EU set standard with access to all members also fine albeit verification costs, if neither then we need to manufacture for each particular member state. Now hopefully if all the same this is merely obtaining compliance paperwork and exhibiting same to each country, if not then different production line batch runs and retooling etc re exports to each country.

The way likely to work will be opening subsidiaries in EU re European distribution rights, but that surely only works if our goods have all EU access rights. It also impacts place of supply rules re vat/equivalent.

I strongly suspect we will get some form of EU access on a product by product accreditation, but if not, or if a cost/time delay for each application, life becomes very complicated.

And when it comes to services- really interesting.

This may all wash through, this may all work, but it is no slam dunk simple step, it is going to be a right royal pain.

I spoke to a client this am re his vat records re Q 30.6.16, need books, he has a £6,000 (was) consignment of goods coming in where payment is in dollars post delivery, price just went up 12% from when he ordered, not the end of the world, just circa £720 extra cost and he only imports about 15% of annual purchases.

I have another client who imports everything from China (priced in dollars), their GP just took a big hit, it did run at about 42% now nearer 30%. On the plus side one of the directors used to be a Forex dealer so I hope he has some contingency in place to soften year one hit.

The it will be alright on the night approach would be more reassuring if somebody could spell out:

1. What we are seeking re terms.
2. When will we seek these.
3. What is official EU reaction (not current guess work)
4. When will changes take place.

Now I have the interesting schedule next week as we visit our house in Sweden and we face the criticism of my Swedish neighbours (have already had two e mails from a retired Swedish political journalist)and a very interesting reaction in the local shops where we are known.

There is a café for sale with shop attached near our house there (6-7 miles), maybe I ought to persuade my other half that we buy it and do a flit whilst we still have the chance.

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By Marion Hayes
07th Jul 2016 21:35

I repeat - now we have a two woman race and if I could vote it would be for AL
TM hopped on the remain boat when she thought it would win and has no 'leave' passion. AL has come to believe in leave whilst trying to reform Europe so should already have a plan

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