A recent report by Ofcom reveals that 58% of Britains consider themselves to be hooked to their handsets.
It seems possible that it is such people who are trying to force their addiction on to the rest of us through the Making Tax Digital project, and it could be said that the Government will be fuelling that addiction by requiring mandatory use of such handsets and other devices. Indeed, it could be argued that the Government are planning to blatently push people further into addiction with their plans.
Some might see this an an extreme view but just think about it. If you are currently not 'addicted' to your electronic devices and would rather not go down that route or even abstain altogether then it will not be possible to comply with the Making Tax Digital mandatory requirements.
Making Tax Digital needs to be introduced at a steady slow pace and there should be an opt out alternative for those that are wanting to ditch their electronic devices and get back to a better, less stressful life.
Do I have a point here or do I just have an old-fashioned view?
Replies (50)
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It's not so long ago that it was considered that mobile phones microwaved your brain.
How much extra will we put into the NHS to cope with this?
It was also once reported that sitting too close/watching too much television will make your eyes go square.
Cost the NHS thousands.
Have you considered this:
http://www.plymouthbrethrenchristianchurch.org/
Bonkers that they have a website!
1: Just because some people can get addicted to a thing does not make the thing bad.
2: The majority of respondents in the quoted survey don't know what addicted means.
Inadequate signal to use a smart phone from home in my 'rural' area (between Maidenhead and High Wycombe).
I will not be getting one.
It is frequently evident when clients reply to my emails from their smartphone:
Not read properly / unclear and hurried response / not answered adequately / later forgets that it was ever done / multiple messages to clear the various points.
It's almost entirely to do with WHERE they are when they reply. MTD beware.
HMRC won't care.
It's always the taxpayer's fault.
Encouraging errors encourages penalties.
Kerching!!
No in this locality - rubbish mobile signal - we've got none in the office - there's a rumour of a patchy EE 4G somewhere nearby but no Vodafone, O2, Three. I've just spoke to a client who can't get broadband so I checked out mobile coverage but Three and O2 have no coverage at all and EE and Vodafone only got 2G!!!! He will have retired before MTD happens.
I agree re introduction. If HMRC's goal is for tax to be paid earlier then I've no problem with that. I feel MTD should be optional with some carrot offered to encourage takeup eg no interest on backdated taxes. Also MTD should start with the biggest businesses first.
Also MTD should start with the biggest businesses first.
Surely the largest businesses already calculate liability and pay tax quarterly.
You are absolutely right. Just go down any major high street or go on the underground. People no longer converse. They collide with others and even posts and other stationary obsticles. I still ask the question what happens to those who have no idea how to work modern technology? There has been no definitive advertising to inform millions who are still blissfully unaware as to what will soon be required. I have not had discussions with my clients because I don't know how to advise them, because I have been given no useful information by HMRC and yet this all kicks off in 20 months!!!!!
I'm tipping it won't kick-off in 20 months.
You can get 20/1 against on Skybet and the bookies always know.
MTD consultations have hit the streets, though.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications?departments%5B%5D=hm-revenue-...
HMRC press release http://www.mynewsdesk.com/uk/hm-revenue-customs-hmrc/pressreleases/digit... "Mike Cherry, FSB National Chairman, said:
Removing small firms and the self-employed with modest turnovers altogether from the proposals will now mean that in addition to the 1.6 million small businesses and landlords that were already excluded, as a result of these changes announced, a further 1.3 million small firms and landlords will no longer be in scope. This means that half of the UK’s 5.4 million small businesses will not be affected by quarterly tax reporting." Have I missed something - I thought all businesses with £10,000+ turnover had to do quarterly accounting.
I have been told by Thomson Reuters (who are one of the companies advising HMRC) that the threshold of £10,000 won't change. But if they can agree a higher temporay threshold for one year then that means there will only be a one year delay for small firms. I would have liked to see the profit figure taken not turnover. Two companies might have the same turnover but entirely different expenditure therefore different profits. Purchases for software etc. will affect profits more significantly than turnover (% stating the obvious I know). It is also odd that the tax threshold is linked to profit NOT turnover and yet HMRC are insisting that turnover will be the determining factor. Am I the only one who can see a whole load tax returns being submitted which will generate no income for HMRC but will cost the punters more just to tell HMRC they have no tax to pay. Is this perverse or I am yet another person missing something here?
I have been told by Thomson Reuters (who are one of the companies advising HMRC) that the threshold of £10,000 won't change. But if they can agree a higher temporay threshold for one year then that means there will only be a one year delay for small firms. I would have liked to see the profit figure taken not turnover. Two companies might have the same turnover but entirely different expenditure therefore different profits. Purchases for software etc. will affect profits more significantly than turnover (% stating the obvious I know). It is also odd that the tax threshold is linked to profit NOT turnover and yet HMRC are insisting that turnover will be the determining factor. Am I the only one who can see a whole load tax returns being submitted which will generate no income for HMRC but will cost the punters more just to tell HMRC they have no tax to pay. Is this perverse or I am yet another person missing something here?
I can't see any point in enforcing this for traders whose turnover is as low as £10000. It's below the personal allowance!!
The question one should perhaps put to HMRC is "if HMRC were standing the cost of all this - software, professional fees, trader's own time, whatever - would you be doing this ?"
If the answer's "no", the project should be abandoned.
I've been without internet for the last 3 days thanks to Virgin Media's total incompetence. Don't have or want a mobile 'phone of any description, so exactly how do HMRC suggest people comply given the stone age state of the internet in some areas.
MTD is going to be massively burdensome on all of us and our clients, but complaining here isn't going to get us far. Each and every one of us needs to respond to the consultations and make sure our professional body knows our thoughts on this. HMRC need to be deluged with responses because they will measure feedback on quantity. We need to use AccountingWeb to bring members attention to points not widely known.
To me it is little like asking a condemned man if he wants to be shot or hung. The outcome has already been decided, it just the way that it is done that is up for discussion..
In that case shouldn't we be stating that our preferred method of dying is "from old age".
Agreed which is why we need to respond and explain why the proposals would be so difficult and expensive for so many small businesses to implement. I know from my own discussions with my professional body HMRC are convinced most taxpayers maintain digital records (how else could they file their VAT return digitally?) so it won't be much effort to switch to MTD. HMRC think taxpayers using paper records are very much in the minority. I have made an estimation of the amount of time it will take to maintain digital accounting records for a sample of my clients and sent the costings to my professional body. I will do the same to HMRC. If each one of us in the profession presents a reasoned argument to HMRC they must listen.Suggestions such as "scrap the proposals altogether and start again" are unlikely to be given even a cursory glance.
I am not against digital accounting records and facilitate this for many of my clients. But you have to consider the needs and ability of the client: digital accounting records won't suit all of them and they haven't got the funds to employ a bookkeeper.
" I know from my own discussions with my professional body HMRC are convinced most taxpayers maintain digital records (how else could they file their VAT return digitally?) so it won't be much effort to switch to MTD."
This is the bit that I find particularly hard to understand. This is utter nonsense and I cannot see how HMRC arrive at their conclusion.
I read with some disbelief that HMRC say that businesses already prefer to do business online. Most businesses, apparently, file VAT Returns and PAYE online.
I wonder why that might be ? Bullied into online submissions ?
Setting the bullying aside, filing a VAT return or an RTI as accompanied by collection of tax. Quarterly Reporting, on the other hand, serves no purpose whatsoever.
Timing bothers me too. The impression I get from the discussion documents is that most/a lot of businesses will submit their transactions on a cash basis and then make end of year adjustments for stock or whatever. Those adjustments may come after the next quarterly accounting has been submitted.
Surely that's going to be hugely confusing for everyone. Particularly HMRC who continually demonstrate that they don't understand accounts.
I'd be surprised if even 20% of small businesses use accounting software. If my clients are anything to go by then it's 5%.
It's actually not just small businesses that don't use computerised accounts. I have a client with a £750k turnover and a net profit of around £300k a year who refuses to have anything to do with computers and maintains beautifully written books and ledgers. Indeed they are so beautifully written I suspect he has a back room somewhere with a team of monks producing these manuscripts.
His attitude is very simple, he keeps perfect records, he pays the right amount of tax, and why should he be dictated to by some faceless bureaucrat and why should he have to pay me to redo his books online.
Agreed he may be a rarity, but since when were HMRC the best arbiter of how businesses should be run?
I've got plenty of clients with 6 figure turnover who do not have digital accounting records, even some with 7 figure turnover and 6 figure profits! They use spreadsheets or bespoke software (which can't have the HMRC API's integrated). One client with bespoke software has to continue to use it because it integrates with their supplier's systems. If HMRC forces them to use software that integrates with HMRC the client will have to run two accounting systems!
The client that I have the most problems with is the one that uses Sage and after many hours of tuition, still does not really understand how it works.
Does anyone? I have to admit that I have a pathological hatred of Sage. They say that if you give enough chimps enough typewriters one of them will produce the works of Shakespeare, I wonder which Chimp produced Sage accounts?
I think the latest Sage is an improvement. Chuck us a banana.I wonder which Chimp produced Sage accounts?
Always seems to come back to HHGTG
"Arthur looked up. "Ford!" he said, "there's an infinite number of monkeys outside who want to talk to us about this script for Hamlet they've worked out.""
Infinite improbability.
This will be my last post here. It appears that most comments here coincide with mine, that we can do nothing to change what HMRC want to do. I have even told our local MP that there will be a backlash against his Tory party from local voters because of this. He seems unable to do or say anything. I am thoroughly depressed because I am currently helping 50 l0cal small businesses who's turnover (but not profit) is over £10,000 but I will not be able to continue to help and advise from 2018 onwards. Currently their small profits help our local economy and gives me a very modest income. None of them use commercial software. Excel is quite sufficient for us all. I currently have 10 months to complete the 50 tax returns. That's 5 per month which allows me to run my other business. The new regime will make this impossible. I will stop my accountancy business after completing their 2017-18 tax returns leaving 50 businesses to try to comply with HMRC new easier system - I know I will get loads of emails and telephone calls from them. Sadly I will be spending all my time trying to sort out the returns for my other business, my wife's business, my son's in law business, my mother's tax return etc......
Everything had been going so well with the potential for more clients but with HMRC's new system looming I have had to start turing away new clients. Goodness knows where they go in Cornwall to find an accountant or any basic advice. There are not enough book-keepers in Cornwall now so what it will be like next year and beyond heaven help any small business here. The £10,000 threshold is laughable - it's below the personal threshold for goodness sake. I can't rant any more. HMRC has won - well done guys. Just when we need all the help to improve the economy you guys come along to screw the very people you purport to want to help. Nice own goal guys.
I have even told our local MP that there will be a backlash against his Tory party from local voters because of this. He seems unable to do or say anything.
That's probably because he knows that there won't be any significant backlash. Really, what are you expecting?
I am thoroughly depressed because I am currently helping 50 l0cal small businesses who's turnover (but not profit) is over £10,000 but I will not be able to continue to help and advise from 2018 onwards.
Don't worry about it, the rest of us will happily take up the work.
The new regime will make this impossible. I will stop my accountancy business after completing their 2017-18 tax returns leaving 50 businesses to try to comply with HMRC new easier system - I know I will get loads of emails and telephone calls from them.
There will be plenty of firms (like mine) happy to take the business, don't worry about it.
Sadly I will be spending all my time trying to sort out the returns for my other business, my wife's business, my son's in law business, my mother's tax return etc......
Happy to quote you for this work, if you like.
Everything had been going so well with the potential for more clients but with HMRC's new system looming I have had to start turing away new clients.
Perhaps you give up too easily.
Ah! One man's misfortune is an opportunity for TV to make a quick buck.
I take it you've worked mainly in PR hitherto.
I'm getting daily emails, but not related to recent posts.
e.g. today 28 Aug:-
On 21st Aug 2016 | Tornado Wrote:
Seems the digest is broken.