JSJ54
Blogger
Share this content
0
12
3599

P11D

P11D

If the director of a one-man company pays his work-related hotel bill with the company debit card or company cheque, am I correct in thinking it doesn't have to go on the P11D?

Replies

Please login or register to join the discussion.

21st Apr 2012 09:30

All business-related?

If it was accommodation provided to an employee (and directors are employees) in order to allow them to perform their duties, then it is simply a business expense and not a benefit. See the guidance on employee travel and subsistence.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By ozzy
RobertD
21st Apr 2012 18:57

All business-related?

stepurhan wrote:

If it was accommodation provided to an employee (and directors are employees) in order to allow them to perform their duties, then it is simply a business expense and not a benefit. See the guidance on employee travel and subsistence.

Yes, but should it be declared on the P11D?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By alattax
21st Apr 2012 10:17

Shouldn't any such payments be reported unless there is a dispensation or PSA.

The employee then claims the appropriate relief for any business element which seems to be 100% here?   

Same booklet (490) chapter 9, and Appendix A.

 

Thanks (1)
avatar
22nd Apr 2012 16:20

I would say no because the company has paid for the accommodation, not the employee.  If the employee had used their personal credit or debit card to pay for the accommodation and had then been reimbursed by the company, then the expense payment should be reported on the P11D. 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By charlb
22nd Apr 2012 18:15

I would say yes it needs to go on the P11D

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/paye/exb/a-z/t/travel.htm#1

 

As well as including transport costs, the 'necessary costs of business travel' also include:

subsistence costs, such as mealsaccommodation if the travel requires an overnight stay

 

For company directors or employees earning at a rate of £8,500 or more per year:

report on form P11D - in section K, B or N - unless you have a dispensation covering this itemyou have no tax or NICs to pay

Thanks (0)
avatar
22nd Apr 2012 19:46

Thanks for the link - yes I agree too that this needs to go on the P11D.  Apologies for my incorrect interpretation above.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By JSJ54
23rd Apr 2012 09:03

The following paragraphs from the above link are why I asked the question:

You cover the costs of an employee's business travel costs in one of the following ways:

by directly providing the transportby paying a supplier through which your employee has arranged transportby reimbursing no more than the necessary costs of business travel

(My bold)

Given that, in a one man band the employee must always arrange the accommodation, there must be an element of discrimination provided that in a two+ company the accommodation is arranged by another employee it doesn't have to go on the P11D.

I'm sorry for being pedantic but I do have this situation in practice.

 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By alattax
23rd Apr 2012 09:55

That situation is covered by the first point 

by directly providing the transport

As stepurhan says there is no overall taxable benefit but we have to round the houses to get there.

 

Thanks (0)
avatar
By JSJ54
23rd Apr 2012 11:32

Thank you everyone

Sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees. Or should that be, when discussing P11Ds, you can never see the wood for the trees.

Thanks (0)
avatar
30th Apr 2012 12:30

P11dx

Seems like a P11dx maybe the way forward

Thanks (0)
By stratty
30th Apr 2012 17:40

Dispensation

Grab a dispensation.  If you ask nicely they may allow you to apply it retrospectively over the last tax year.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By cameret
25th Oct 2012 21:04

Company direct payment of expenses and P11Ds

If you look at HMRC 480 (2012) expenses and benefits chapter 3. Tax Treatment of Expenses Payments. In 3.2 it lists what constitutes and expense payment, or an allowance. It brings up the issue of 'purchases on behalf of the business'  using a company credit card provided to the employee. As long as the employee makes it clear the purchase is on behalf of the company and the supplier accepts that, then it is not an expense payment under the benefit rules. Reading chapter 3. it seems likely that any expense paid by the company on a supplier account, and most paid by a sole director by company card would not be an 'expense payment' to an employee, and therefore would not have to appear on a P11D.

 

 

 

Thanks (0)