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RTI - Is a split FPS possible

We have a few clients where we run part of the payroll and the client runs the remainder.  This is usually we run the directors element the clients run the ‘shop floor’ staff.  We use Sage payroll.

Originally, Sage told us we could run a split payroll i.e. we submit one EPS and the client another FPS.  The only provisio was that only one EAS could be made.

I therefore took a data backup and submitted an EAS from our office which worked fine.  However, I noticed that each employee has now been assigned a unique RTI reference number.  As this reference number is different on our machine and the clients machine I again contacted Sage to confirm we could perform a split submission.  They have now said you can’t undertake a split submission and everything has to be submitted from one machine.

The notes provided by HMRC seem to suggest you can undertake a split submission.

Help anyone!!

Also Sage say everyone needs to make an EAS; HMRC say only large payroll's need to????? 

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By gg
03rd Dec 2012 11:15

Yes you can

In answer to your question, yes, you can send an FPS for one set of employees and your client can send an FPS for the remainder. The EAS (for the pilot year only) should be for all employees and can only be sent once.

The RTI reference (or Payroll ID) should be unique for each employee. You say that the number is different on your machine and your client's machine, but are you saying you have the same employees on both machines, even though you each only process certain ones?

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EAS only if requested

You only need to send an EAS if specifically told to by HMRC, but you can do one voluntarily if you wish. Above 99% of employers have no need to send an EAS.

Now, it may be that Sage have implemented RTI such that everyone needs an EAS, but if that is so that is a feature of Sage rather than an HMRC requirement.

Be aware that splitting a PAYE scheme can lead to errors in the software calculating things like SSP recovery incorrectly (if any employees should be paid SSP). SSP recovery should now be filed monthly on an EPS if it is nonzero in any month in the year.

 

EDIT: Outside the technical detail of SSP recovery on the EPS I am aware of no reason why a PAYE scheme can't be split for RTI purposes and have two separate FPS filings each month (or each week if weekly).

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03rd Dec 2012 13:26

Not for the pilot

I don't think you can have a split EAS in the pilot this year. If you merged and did a single EAS you could then file separate FPS's, but would need a way to merge for the EPS each month.

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EPS isn't usually needed

dnicholson wrote:

I don't think you can have a split EAS in the pilot this year. If you merged and did a single EAS you could then file separate FPS's, but would need a way to merge for the EPS each month.

You only need an EAS if you've been told to file one by HMRC or your software mandates one for its own reasons.

EPS is only needed in cases with SxP, CIS suffered, or NIC Holidays so many smaller businesses wouldn't file one in any given year.

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03rd Dec 2012 13:48

Too late

@Tom: I agree, but the OP has already sent an EAS and doesn't mention whether reclaims are needed.

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03rd Dec 2012 13:49

Thanks @Tom Mc

Tom Mc - thanks for your comments.

Sage have stated that EVERYONE needs to file an EAS.  However, i agree with you that it is only complex or large employers (250+ ee's) that need to - as per HMRC.

As an update (following a very unproductive morning of phone calls) HMRC will accept split FPS's but sage and some other software providers are not able to facilitate this yet.

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By gg
03rd Dec 2012 15:35

Sage can send 'split' FPS's

zeofiles wrote:

As an update (following a very unproductive morning of phone calls) HMRC will accept split FPS's but sage and some other software providers are not able to facilitate this yet.

This is incorrect, Sage CAN send 'split' FPS's.

 

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Sage shouldn't block that, unless a developer wasn't thinking

zeofiles wrote:

Tom Mc - thanks for your comments.

Sage have stated that EVERYONE needs to file an EAS.  However, i agree with you that it is only complex or large employers (250+ ee's) that need to - as per HMRC.

As an update (following a very unproductive morning of phone calls) HMRC will accept split FPS's but sage and some other software providers are not able to facilitate this yet.

 

I don't quite understand how Sage stops that. You just submit the FPS for one set of employees from one payroll file/software, and the FPS for another set of employees from the other. An issue only arises if Sage has assigned a new employee ID to everyone when the EAS was filed (and even that may be correctable by simply entering the Sage RTI ID as the "employee code" or "Works No", or "Employee ID" in the *other* payroll file)

Actually, I *can* see a problem if both files are Sage files, given that it seems that Sage only allows FPS's where an EAS has already been done in that file, because you can only do the EAS once.

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By gg
03rd Dec 2012 15:58

Sage doesn't block anything

TomMcClelland wrote:

Actually, I *can* see a problem if both files are Sage files, given that it seems that Sage only allows FPS's where an EAS has already been done in that file, because you can only do the EAS once.

That is not how the Sage product works - it does allow you to send an FPS if an EAS has not been sent, and it does support 'split' FPS's.

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Thank you

gg wrote:

TomMcClelland wrote:

Actually, I *can* see a problem if both files are Sage files, given that it seems that Sage only allows FPS's where an EAS has already been done in that file, because you can only do the EAS once.

That is not how the Sage product works - it does allow you to send an FPS if an EAS has not been sent, and it does support 'split' FPS's.

Thanks for that. I was only commenting based on the information in this thread, so if that information was incorrect that is useful to know (probably for the OP too!). Odd that the OP is so clear that Sage told them they most post EAS and that FPS could not be split scheme.

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03rd Dec 2012 13:51

EAS already sent

@dnicholson

Yes the EAS has already been sent - thats whats so annoying.  Sage originally told us one thing which resulted in me submitting the EAS in a certain way, only to find their original advice was duff!

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03rd Dec 2012 18:29

gg please explain more
@gg 4 different members of staff at sage have said it isn't possible. I asked 2 of these to check with their 'managers' and they still said it isn't possible.

My concern was that the Unique RTI reference number for each employee was different on our software (from where we did the EAS) to the clients. I have tried to change the reference on the clients software but to no avail. Again sage say it's not possible.

HMRC say you can do split FPS but the numbers must be the same as used for the EAS.

Do you think this is correct as i wanted to do 2 FPS submissions from two separate offices as opposed to 2 separate submissions from the same office.

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Hmmm, intriguing

zeofiles wrote:
HMRC say you can do split FPS but the numbers must be the same as used for the EAS.

This is correct. If an employee code changes between EAS and FPS, or between successive FPS's, then the old code must be included in the FPS as well as the new one, so the software should recognise this situation and mark up the FPS accordingly. If any software hasn't been designed to allow this then that could indeed create problems. Obviously I can't comment about Sage from my personal knowledge, but one would assume that Sage Support Department knows its own product.

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03rd Dec 2012 23:01

Interesting so....
Picking up on a couple of comments.

You can't edit the refence number on sage. But if I changed the works number to the correct individual reference number, would that then allow a successful FPS??

Thanks again

Ps Sage are hopeful that they will be able to allow multiple FPS from the start of the new tax year. However, this is no help to me for this particular client! If I can't sort this problem, the only cause of action may be to pull the client out of the pilot scheme which is apparently allowed in exceptional cases.

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You'd need to experiment to be certain

I doubt that editing the works number would help. It sounds as if Sage is generating its own private "PayID" for each employee and that is what identifies that particular employee to HMRC for RTI purposes. That would square with Sage's own statement that split FPS won't work with their product.

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