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RTI, Moneysoft and paying in arrears

I have a couple of clients who are paid weekly.  I go in on the Monday and process the wages for the week before and date the payslip as the previous Friday and they are paid on the Monday.

I have just spoken to Moneysoft and they say that if I submit  on the Monday then I will be late because Moneysoft treats the payslip date as the payment date and so I haven't submitted on or before the payment date. 

I have spoken to HMRC who say that the payslip date doesn't matter it's the payment date.

I'm getting very confused!

I thought that I might be able to set up Moneysoft to pay in arrears but this doesn't seem possible. I could put the correct hours etc in to the pay week rather than the earned week which would work fine until I have to use the calender for sick pay, since it would put sick pay in the earned week rather than the paid week.

Any advice?

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27th Feb 2013 10:34

sorry

I'm sorry if you got unclear or incorrect  information from our support lines.

If you pay the employees on the Monday, then you need to submit the RTI return on or before that Monday (as per your HMRC conversation).

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27th Feb 2013 10:41

Thanks Richard for the swift response.

Can I confirm then that it doesn't matter that the payslip is dated the previous Friday.

Thanks

 

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04th Mar 2013 12:11

no

Reply edited 4 March 2013.

It is the date of the actual payment to the employee that matters. In your example, this is the Monday, and so the weekly pay date should be set to Monday in Moneysoft Payroll Manager. The weekly pay date/payment date in Payroll Manager are assumed to be the same thing.

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27th Feb 2013 12:01

Are you sure?

As far as I am aware, the only date in Moneysoft is the Pay Date, which is the date printed on the payslips.  For Weekly payrolls, you can only specify the day of the week, so if you choose Friday, the only date that Moneysoft can possibly know is Friday.  If you then file the RTI submission on Monday, HMRC's computer system will identify it as late.

Is Moneysoft being amended for 2013/14 to include two dates - the date paid up to and the actual pay date?

In my view, you have been dating your payrolls incorrectly.  PAYE is due when the payment is made - on the Monday, not the Friday - and your weekly payrolls should always have been dated on the Monday.

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27th Feb 2013 12:14

Quickbooks

I believe that Quickbooks has 2 dates, the earned up to date and pay date.

Yes I realise now that I probably should have been dating the payslips as the pay date but would then encounter problems with sick pay etc when using the calender.

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28th Feb 2013 09:22

What about split payments?

Hello  I thought I was all ready for RTI but this thread has thrown up a question for me.  I run a monthly payroll due on the month end date.  For historical reasons, most employees, have about 75% of their nett pay sent to their bank account before the month end.  I then calculate the payroll and pay the balance on the last working day.  I would much rather pay in one go but the MD won't agree to the change (don't ask!) - but will RTI throw up a problem?  If so, I need to sort this pronto as will have to give some sort of notice to staff.

 

Thanks for any responses.

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By Old Greying Accountant
28th Feb 2013 09:52

I have similar ...

... to landscaper, the basic salary is on a standing order, and I advise additional pay for overtime etc which is paid by cheque.

My understaning from IRIS is HMRC will take the payslip date as the pay date so as long as the submission is made before that date you will be OK, so for monthly date the last day of the month (or 5th of next month to give maximum time).

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28th Feb 2013 10:47

ok another thought...

What about payments made when I am on holiday i.e. I am away the last week of May so I will calculate the payroll in advance and make sure that everyone is paid on the last day of the month but I won't be there to submit the RTI FPS on the actual date of payment.  What happens then?

Since posting the above, I have found guidance on HMRC that you can submit the FPS in advance - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/reporting/when-to-report.htm

 

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28th Feb 2013 10:52

No problem

The FPS must be filed on or before the payment, so calculate the payroll in advance, file the FPS and go off and enjoy your holiday.

Come to think of it - why not calculate the payroll and file the FPS at the same time that the employees receive 75% of their net pay?

Or are they being paid weekly advances of 25% for 3 weeks?  If the latter, you should be running a weekly payroll and filing weekly FPSs.  We have a client who is currently running a weekly payroll, but we have persuaded him to switch to a monthly payroll for 2013/14 under RTI and if he needs to ease the transition, to give loans (not advances) to the employees.

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By seitler
28th Feb 2013 19:08

amendments

Aren't the FPS reports cumulative so if you file a report before you go away on holiday in May with what you expect the payroll to be (maybe based on the previous month) when you file June any adjustments in May from what you actually filed will be automatically reported to them so they will have the correct data to date ?

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01st Mar 2013 10:56

Thank you

Thanks Euan for your help (as always!)

The 75% on about the 20th of the month is an advance against the payroll due on the last working day of the month so is a monthly payroll and not a weekly.

I like your point about sending/calculating the FPS at the earlier payment but does that mean that technically we should change our official payroll date.  The other added complication is that not all employees have that earlier payment so I don't want to be running two payrolls per month!

The MD is now thinking about this issue and how to deal with it having at first said "can't you just ignore it".

As always it's going to be good fun seeing exactly what works and doesn't in April/May.  I had a gathering with some girlfriends last evening and took a straw poll about what they knew (as employees) about RTI and possible implications as some claim benefits.  Not one of them knew anything about it.  Some of them help with payroll matters where they work - oh dear!

 

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