SA season: How was it for you?

What would you do differently?

Didn't find your answer?

Granted, the last thing advisers want to do after the last month is to review what went well and what didn’t.

But now that the dust has settled for another year, there’s no better time than February, with the month still fresh in your noggin, to analyse this year’s tax season.

So now it's over, are you putting their feet up or are you thinking of further improvements? Was it better or worse than last year? Did you try anything different that affected your performance?  

After last year’s self assessment season, Jon Griffey compiled a month-by-month completion chart. The statistics revealed January to still be the victim of client procrastination. Did anyone chart similar statistics this year?

Replies (32)

Please login or register to join the discussion.

avatar
By mabzden
02nd Feb 2017 14:56

Overall, I found it not as bad as previous years. But I'm still very glad it's over.

In years gone by I would still be working manically at one minute to midnight on Jan 31st. But thankfully those days seem to be over and I go home at a sensible hour.

I would still say I do 60% of my annual workload in December and January. But the work in completed more efficiently now, mainly due to better systems and software.

Thanks (1)
paddle steamer
By DJKL
02nd Feb 2017 15:36

What I would do differently; spend less time on Accounting Web.

Thanks (1)
Freddie
By Slim Freddie
02nd Feb 2017 15:36

Same old, same old. Tried to motivate and encourage clients to give me everything in plenty of time. Lastminute.com wins the day again. Now where's the gin?

Thanks (0)
avatar
By Judith Clark
02nd Feb 2017 15:43

I kept a record of the submissions month by month too, we still have 52% of tax returns being submitted in December/January. Client procrastination is the reason, even had a client bring a box of records in on 30 January for accounts and tax return. We didn't promise to submit the tax return on time but thankfully by that late stage almost all the rest had been submitted and we did manage to get the return in. However we have probably made a rod for our own back now ("you managed it last year")!

Thanks (0)
By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
02nd Feb 2017 15:53

Mine was fine. I did mildly lose my temper with someone asking where their tax return at 3pm on the 31st (they supplied the data that morning) but all was good

Filed the bulk of our 300 odd by end of December. Peak season for us was November and December, Jan was mainly 'mopping up' and filing things we had already prepared weeks ago the clients hadn't bothered sending back.

it helped that I fired two quite nice but time consuming clients with October year ends who tend to between them chew up a week of my time for not much cash in December and Jan.

I think January is down to choice of how you run things.

In-fact I picked up a new client today as their accountant had left it until 31st Jan to send the return to them. I could see the email chain which showed she sent the data in mid October (!). This is the spouse of a long term client and we have been after this work for some time as it puts us in-front of a dozen or so fairly influential local people. Very good PR if we can do a decent job in a short space of time.

Thanks (0)
By petersaxton
02nd Feb 2017 16:33

I found this year was a lot better than previous years.
With a week to go I had about 24 tax returns outstanding. There's still 17 to send me their data. I think I had six to complete on the last day but that's because I felt I had time to do other things in the last week. I've started to get the late data in and there's plenty to do. I'd done the ARD trick to give me an extra three months with about ten companies. I'm redoing my website and sending emails out about MTD and getting people signed up with Xero, ensure they all have business bank accounts and get bank feeds set up if possible. I have to check that limited company clients still need a salary in March. In April I will prepare a comprehensive tax information request and ask for paperwork as so many people give me an amount and then when I check it turns out they've made an error.
If people wont use Xero (and use it properly - I'm willing to do all the work if they pay!) I'll say I wont guarantee that I will achieve deadlines.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By mabzden
02nd Feb 2017 17:54

I only missed the deadline with one person and that - funnily enough - was because he does his own bookkeeping in Xero.

What a mess. I would prefer a carrier bag full of receipts any day of the week.

Thanks (0)
Replying to mabzden:
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Feb 2017 18:17

I remember a man telling me forty years ago, "if you really want to [***] things up, use a computer."

Thanks (0)
Replying to mabzden:
By petersaxton
02nd Feb 2017 23:04

I'm going to be checking every week/month. I had one client that I didn't do that with and her accounts looked totally different to reality! She still hasn't explained how she came to make her entries.

Thanks (0)
By mrme89
02nd Feb 2017 18:01

Richard what would you do differently?

Would you respond to members reports?
Would you sort website issues instead of fishing for article inches?
https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/any-answers/company-restored-to-companie...

Thanks (1)
Replying to mrme89:
John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
03rd Feb 2017 13:45

Thanks for alerting us to the phantom comment-posting issue, mrme89. Sorry that it's still kicking around. Our developers are investigating to see how it happened and how to correct it.

Meanwhile, go easy on Richard this week. One of the things that would have made a welcome difference was if HMRC had found a better time to drop its MTD consultation response than on SA deadline day. It was all hands on deck at AWeb Central and Rich was called into action to chase up information on the MTD technology situation: https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/the-mtd-software-race-is-on

I also don't think it's fair to accuse him of "fishing for article inches". As a reader of this thread I found it really informative and inspiring to hear a) how a lot of members seem to have improved the client management side of SA this year and b) descriptions of the techniques they are using. We may well collect some of the tips into an article, but the main point of that exercise would be to alert other members to the useful material that has been posted.

Marks and petersaxton both had some really good ideas that others could pick up (although I'd like to know more about the "ARD trick", Peter).

It's also encouraging to see members starting to gauge what is going to need to change to cope with the MTD regime when it gets up and running. Oops - this was supposed to be an upbeat reply. I didn't mean to bring down the mood by mentioning MTD. There are plenty of other places we can talk about that elsewhere on the site.

Happy February all.

Thanks (4)
Replying to John Stokdyk:
Logo
By marks
03rd Feb 2017 19:45

John Stokdyk wrote:

(although I'd like to know more about the "ARD trick", Peter).

Shortening the ARD by a day when the accounts are due gets you 3 months extra to file the accounts. You can then do it a second time if is a standard 12 month period as the ARD will still be the previous year on companies house so can get 6 months extra to file. Though this will mean CT return late so £100 penalty.

We do it all the time and charge clients £60+vat to do the "application" for 3 months extra to file with companies house

Sell it by say we can do it and will cost you £60+vat for us to do it or you can get the late filing penalty of at least £150. Every client asks us to do the "application"

Had new client in today whose year end is 31 May 2016 and due to file 28 Feb 2017. Books are mess so said we couldn't done and he would get a penalty of at least £150. He is paying £60 +vat for us to apply for 3 month extension.

Thanks (0)
RLI
By lionofludesch
02nd Feb 2017 18:19

Mine was fine.

The trouble with these month by month charts is that they don't necessarily tell you when the work is done. Just the month the job was finished.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
By petersaxton
02nd Feb 2017 23:01

I record when I receive the data, when I start work on the task and when I get the complete data and when I complete the work.
I get people asking me if I have everything I need. It would take me nearly as long to do the work as to be sure if I have everything. When I get to the last couple of months before a deadline I tell my clients I will be working on client work in the order it is received.

Thanks (0)
boxfile
By spilly
02nd Feb 2017 20:09

We had a better January but that was because we chased the clients hard throughout December, making that the busier month.
Worst thing was getting several queries about a previous client on 30 & 31 from their new accountant. Really annoying considering that we had already sent over all the information weeks earlier. Felt like telling them to get real and go away, but professional etiquette kicked in and we helped out (albeit with gritted teeth).

Thanks (0)
FT
By FirstTab
02nd Feb 2017 20:10

Worst year for us due to fee bank purchase. Great that we made the purchase.

Only one we failed submit due to client issues.

Thanks (0)
Logo
By marks
02nd Feb 2017 22:55

237 tax returns

201 finalised and 13 estimated.

The other 23 not finalised for various reasons; never got in touch, never gave the information, didnt give us UTR number (they might not even be registered yet), they recently registered so have 3 months to file, etc.

Of the 201 finalised 72% filed in the last 3 months (Nov 2016 - Jan 2017).

Things werent helped this year by us changing a lot of ltd companies to 31 March year ends so lot effort spent on ltd companies filings for 31 December. Thought would be a good idea to have most with 31 March year ends but with hindsight maybe not if most give the info in the last few months.

For next year going to be more systemised chasing clients.

1. End of March send out tax return checklist/list of items to consider to disclose both by mail and uploaded to IRIS openspace

2. Follow up letter chasing up outstanding information at end of August

3. Automated chasing email every month via Active Campaign (similar to infusionsoft/mailchimp) until the client hands their info in.

4. Concentrate on turnover of jobs and look to get to 30 working day turnaround on average

5. When books come in will be given to office admin assistant to book in, go through records to see what is there (and request anything missing) and upload sales invoices, purchase invoices/receipts, bank statements to autoentry so when accounts staff pick up the records just a case of pushing through to Xero and reconciling where we pull the accounts together. This compares to currently where when books come in the go in cupboard and dont get looked at until ready to be started.

Thanks (1)
Replying to marks:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
02nd Feb 2017 23:04

5 is essential though easier for the one man band (me) than larger firms.

My first firm had an office manager who allocated work etc, one of the tasks he did was passing out records as they arrived to be reviewed by us trainees who listed missing information which was then requested.

This :

a. made jobs faster and therefore cheaper re staff hours.
b. sent message to clients that we were doing something.

Sadly my next firm did not adopt the practice but once I graduated to my own client list I would do it for my clients as a matter of routine.

It also helps keep WIP lower so is good cashflow management if like me you fee annually in arrears (I know, I am a dinosaur)

Thanks (0)
Replying to DJKL:
Logo
By marks
02nd Feb 2017 23:21

DJKL wrote:

b. sent message to clients that we were doing something.

It also helps keep WIP lower so is good cashflow management if like me you fee annually in arrears (I know, I am a dinosaur)

Agree with first point above as nothing worse than contacting a client a month after they have handed in their records to say you are missing a bank statement. Will get them thinking "what have they been doing for the last month".

Re second point fortunately we get paid by DD (GoCardless) by about 90% of clients in advance. So by year end they have paid their fee. Met a potential new client tonight. Fee working out something like £220 + VAT per month. When they asked if they could just pay it as a one off fee I said no as we dont work like that. They were taken aback for a minute but when I told them the advantages eg spreading the cost over the year, helping them with cash flow management plus talked about all the other value stuff we do as a firm eg price consulting, moving people to the cloud, tax planning, benchmarking against competitors, etc the fee issue and its payment terms didnt become a dealbreaker. Before i might have backed down to win the client but felt quite satisfying to stick to my guns and win them round.

Thanks (0)
Replying to marks:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Feb 2017 10:08

marks wrote:

237 tax returns

Thought would be a good idea to have most with 31 March year ends ......

Why ? I'm genuinely curious. What advantage did you see ?

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
avatar
By mabzden
03rd Feb 2017 11:05

I still have a lot of 31 March companies.

On the plus side it means the AP coincides with the tax year and clients only have one period to worry about for all their data.

On the downside it makes December a nightmare for me, with the week before and the week after Christmas my busiest of the year. And that's before I've bombed out on Christmas Eve to start my shopping and buy a turkey.

I would be very happy for someone to persuade me that this is a daft idea and suggest a better year end.

Thanks (0)
Replying to mabzden:
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Feb 2017 11:16

mabzden wrote:

I still have a lot of 31 March companies.

On the plus side it means the AP coincides with the tax year and clients only have one period to worry about for all their data.

I like the idea of being able to pay a dividend in either of two tax years, whilst still remaining in the same company accounting period.

It keeps the accounts looking consistent yet gives me the flexibility to switch income from one year to another.

It's actually very rare for me to change the ARD from the default.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lionofludesch:
Logo
By marks
03rd Feb 2017 19:33

lionofludesch wrote:

marks wrote:

237 tax returns

Thought would be a good idea to have most with 31 March year ends ......

Why ? I'm genuinely curious. What advantage did you see ?

Mainly that dealing with payroll/dividends in one tax year

If you have say 30 September 2016 year end and you want to allocate some dividends to 2015/2016 doesn't give you much time to work out how much can be allocated if say they hand in records 3 months after year end.

If year end is 31 march and hand in 3 months after year end have plenty of time

Thanks (0)
Replying to marks:
RLI
By lionofludesch
04th Feb 2017 09:29

Interesting thoughts, Marks. Whether to pay dividends in March or April is, for me, generally a director's/income tax issue. Most of them have straightforward affairs with just salary and dividends as the material components. They're relatively easy to assess.

Even if it was a Corporation Tax/Retained Profits issue, the bigger clients can produce interim accounts, the smaller ones generally have a good feel for how well - or badly - they're doing.

You're never going to get it right to the last penny in real time - but you can get close.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By lesley.barnes
03rd Feb 2017 10:09

Mine was much worse than last year. Clients are constantly chased but this year even people who hand their paperwork over in good time didn't bother. Its the constant chasing that is more stressful than doing the tax returns. Reasons for handing paperwork over late - been very busy the last year, wanted to save their CIS repayments for a holiday and couldn't trust themselves if the money was in the bank, waiting to get money in so they could pay my fees. Each person had a different excuse all amounted to it'll get done. I still have 4 people who haven't handed their paperwork over when I'm normally all done and sent off in time. This year has made me think serious about MTD and whether I could cope with this leave of stress if I had to do this every quarter.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lesley.barnes:
By petersaxton
04th Feb 2017 14:10

Most of the excuses don't stack up if you switch to quarterly reporting, though so it's worth it. MTD is a good opportunity to get rid of procrastinators and get some better clients.

Thanks (0)
Replying to petersaxton:
RLI
By lionofludesch
04th Feb 2017 14:30

Harsh but fair, Peter.

Thanks (0)
Replying to lesley.barnes:
avatar
By KateR
06th Feb 2017 16:28

Mine also worse, even some usually 'good' clients left things late. Had a few who blamed me for not reminding them, but after umpteen years of SA they know when the deadline is. In early 2016 my husband was diagnosed with lung cancer and after supporting him through two major operations and 4 cycles of chemo while working full time (own business) by autumn I was barely able to keep up with work already in let alone chase work. But I did manage to get everyone sorted by the deadline by working extremely long hours in January. I now have a list of the first ones against the wall when the revolution - I mean MTD comes.

Thanks (0)
counting
By Counting numbers
03rd Feb 2017 11:14

Totally guilty of procrastinating on Accweb and facebook and twitter and youtube. Don't think I'll change. Another year over, yippeee.

Thanks (0)
sally26
By Sally26
06th Feb 2017 11:37

Hi all
Just wanted to say that as a lone accountant working in my shed , the camaradarie of the 31 jan deadline on AW is the nearest I get to "meeting at the water cooler" and I love it !
Really enjoying the idea of the post deadline sort out as I am becoming hidden by piles of last year's papers. A good pot of coffee, Spotify on loud and the place will be transformed..... very therapeutic and the only neighbours are the squawking sparrows so they won't mind !
The only statistics I keep re SA is the date of submission - I try to get in earlier each year.
This year of my 29 submissions I beat my submission date only 8 times - 38% filed in Jan

Best wishes from my little corner of devon

Thanks (2)
avatar
By morgani
06th Feb 2017 13:32

We did 29% of our work in January and nearly 50% in November to January.

For us this isn't far away from past performance but is not good enough for where we are heading. We are using MTD to ensure we are more geared towards quarterly and ideally monthly record keeping by us and/or clients.

We are undertaing more this year to sort everyone out and get accounts finished earlier. We tend to try and work to the erliest point of completion rather than the deadline but that will be even more so this year. Our aim is 70% of Ltd Co year ends done within 3 months of the year end and for S/E 75% done by 30 September.
This may be an ambitious aim but you have to aim for something and challenge yourself.

At the same point we will be scoring all clients and improving those who we can and weeding out those who never will. We will then aim to gain more of our ideal clients.

Thanks (0)
avatar
By emanresu
11th Feb 2017 19:39

Richard Hattersley wrote:

So now it's over, are you putting their feet up ...

You bet. On the operating table by 1000 on 31st January. Quad coronary bypass completed by 1500. Out of hospital last Friday.

Count your blessings !!

Thanks (0)