SA100 penalty, but have proof of submission

2015/16 SA100 submitted on 31/1/17 but HMRC have just issued a penalty

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Hello,

On 31 January 2017 I submitted a 2015/16 SA100 for a client through taxfiler. I have the taxfiler submission receipt showing that the tax return was "accepted" by HMRC. Today I received notification of a penalty for the late submission of this tax return. I 'phoned HMRC who say they have no record of  receiving this tax return, and can do nothing with the submission receipt that I have. HMRC have suggested refiling the return then contesting the penalty, but this would not guarantee the removal of my client's penalty, nor would the record be accurate. Also, after a quick look at taxfiler, I am concerned about resubmitting the tax return, as I would have to reopen the IR marked tax return and submit an ammended version. I may overwrite the records that taxfiler currently have of the previous submission (at least in the user interface).

I think that I should not resubmit online, but print out the submission receipt and tax return and post this to HMRC with a covering letter.

Has anyone else experienced this? I would be grateful for any advice.

Thanks.

Replies (18)

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By stratty
03rd Mar 2017 12:07

I have this occasionally.

I refile the tax return and submit an appeal with the original submission receipt.

Not one has failed so far and is therefore probably more common than you think.

Thanks (1)
RLI
By lionofludesch
03rd Mar 2017 12:38

Had this once a few years ago with a partnership return. I was told it was impossible.

I forwarded a copy of the submission receipt and got an apologetic phone call, wondering if I might send HMRC a copy of the return. There was, of course, no obligation to do so, but I did it anyway because that's the kind of nice guy that I am.

Penalty was never mentioned again, obviously.

Thanks (1)
By SteveHa
03rd Mar 2017 12:55

Not with SA, but recently had a similar situation with RTI and a new client, where I brought all RTI/CIS submissions up to date, but more than three weeks later HMRC had no record.

Forwarded all the email acknowledgements, and the apology came back hot on their heels.

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By Tim Vane
03rd Mar 2017 13:02

It seems to happen sometimes when the servers are busy - I think the system just gets overloaded and the occasional submission falls down the back of the HMRC sofa. As above, just resubmit and forward the original receipt on appeal. HMRC should just cancel the penalty.

Thanks (1)
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By KD1182
03rd Mar 2017 13:17

Appeal with the submission receipt and make it clear that you have submitted as soon as the issue was realised.

They aren't that unreasonable, they will accept the reason.

Thanks (1)
By K81
03rd Mar 2017 13:30

have you phoned the IT people rather than HMRC helpline, the IT people can usually find submitted tax returns that haven't flowed across to HMRC systems.

Thanks (1)
Sparkly Orange
By Sparkly
03rd Mar 2017 13:33

I have had about ten of these in the last few days - I think they are duplicate records caused by them trying to tie up the Class 2 NI records - the penalty notices only show the NI number - no UTR! Don't relodge at this stage, instead fill in the appeal form and send a copy of the submission report/evidence that you have. Can't wait for Making Tax Dafter!

Thanks (1)
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By DMGbus
03rd Mar 2017 13:40

Before doing anything further log on as agent, then look at your SA client list and select the client concerned and see what it says about the 2015-16 SA return, ie. received or not received. If received that is your proof, no need to re-file return.

I do this for all clients on or before 31 Jan each year just to be certain that returns are logged as received (keeping a screen grab as evidence).

There is also an anomally that can happen with a certain software in certain circumstances where (with an SA800) the return will be filed with an incorrect UTR and receive a filing receipt from HMRC.

The other possibility is that in a very few cases some individuals incorrectly have TWO UTRs and the wrong one is used for their SA return.

Regarding the HMRC server busy instances that occurred in January I had one case where the tax filing software very clearly said SA return not filed / not accepted by HMRC, yet going online I found the return was showing as filed as well as the liability per the return.

Thanks (1)
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By bernard michael
03rd Mar 2017 14:06

Did you get an HMRC e-mail confirming submission? If so this will help your appeal- in fact make it certain of success

Thanks (1)
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By Southwestbeancounter
03rd Mar 2017 14:35

I had one yesterday where an amendment for a 2014/15 return was not showing up online; I spoke to the agent dedicated line and the lady said there was no sign of the amendment although I have the Sage receipt and the HMRC emailed one so I know it got there on 31 January 2017. She asked me to take copies of the two submission receipts and send them in by post along with a copy of the amended 2015 return for it to be put on manually. Obviously this did not get £100 fine as the original return had been submitted on time, this was just an 'in year' amendment.

However today I have had two people contact me to say that they have had £100 fines; one is no longer a client (as he ceased trading in 2014) so I'm not sure what's happened there (I wonder if it could be arrears of Class 2?) but the other one I have the two submission receipts for and his 2016 return is showing as received on 31 January on the online account and he has paid the tax requested. I wondered if it was a scam but I guess it's just the usual HMRC inefficiencies. I've asked the clients to email me copies of what they have received so that I can pursue this fully.

Thanks (1)
Replying to Southwestbeancounter:
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By Southwestbeancounter
03rd Mar 2017 18:47

Well that was interesting - one of the clients with £100 fine emailed it through and its a totally different UTR no. Just phoned HMRC (interesting call as I'm not technically agent for that UTR number) and apparently HMRC set up a new (additional) UTR no for the client last year to cater for his temporary NI number which is the correct NI number that we have been using for over 10 years! The HMRC operator was just as baffled as me so has agreed to merge both accounts, wipe off the £100 fine and revert back to the original UTR number which was the correct one all along!! Doh!!!!

Thanks (1)
Jennifer Adams
By Jennifer Adams
03rd Mar 2017 17:24

Yes.. I too have received a phone call from an upset client who is worried. I too had an acknowledgement via Taxfiler and an email from HMRC. Plus when I checked by logged into the client's account it shows..... that the return was submitted on 8 January 2017. And still the client gets a £100 penalty.
Client rang the helpline and its an automated message saying you have to appear either via personal Gov gateway account (client doesnt have one and says he doesnt want one) so muggins here is going to have to waste time completing a paper form and walking down to the post box.

Thanks (1)
Jennifer Adams
By Jennifer Adams
03rd Mar 2017 17:24

Yes.. I too have received a phone call from an upset client who is worried. I too had an acknowledgement via Taxfiler and an email from HMRC. Plus when I checked by logged into the client's account it shows..... that the return was submitted on 8 January 2017. And still the client gets a £100 penalty.
Client rang the helpline and its an automated message saying you have to appear either via personal Gov gateway account (client doesnt have one and says he doesnt want one) so muggins here is going to have to waste time completing a paper form and walking down to the post box.

Thanks (1)
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By SteveRA
03rd Mar 2017 20:31

I have just received an email from a client with an identical letter. She is also suffering from HMRC class 2 NIC mess up, not yet resolved, unfortunately. And I also submitted via Taxfiler! There seems to be a theme here.

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By jaffe123
04th Mar 2017 09:46

Had a similar letter and HMRC helpline said same thing - not received but suggested I phone the online service on 0300 200 3600.
They found it stuck in their system - apparently (in this case) a problem with amended returns and it will take anything up to 15 working days for it to appear on the client record.
You have to ring them though so they can actually find it and process it through.

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By SteveRA
06th Mar 2017 09:34

Slightly different situation here, I asked client for a copy of the notice. It has a different reference. Phoned HMRC jast now and they will cancel it.

Apparently when SA records were first set up no NI number was necessary, some records had been operating for years with the wrong NIno, usually a temporary one.

This explains the duplication as new computer systems are now picking up the correct NINO and issuing a fresh record.

Thanks (1)
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By saiachuta
22nd Jun 2017 04:18

Hi,

My accountant forgot to save the IRmark for one of the submitted return for 2011-2012 also there is a mismatch of IRmark on submitted CT 600 return for year 2013-2014. I went for a application and submitted proof of above returns original CT600 from HMRC and the copy of CT600 we have both are matching. The department asking us why there is a mismatch of IRmark on submitted return. What answer should we give as the submission receipt is matching with submission date from HMRC online portal.

Thanks

Thanks (0)
Replying to saiachuta:
By SteveHa
22nd Jun 2017 08:58

You should have really started a new thread for this, but nevertheless, the IRMark is calculated based on the entries on the Return. If there's a mismatch, that would suggest that something has been amended on the Return.

You need to identify what that amendment is.

Thanks (1)