Joe Soap
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tax calculator

tax calculator

Client has a state pension, a small salary, some savings income (paid net) and some dividends. The total for this tax year should be about £40k. The 2015/16 version of the software package I use is not yet available.

There are quite a few tax calculators around but they often don't allow for dividends and sometimes they seem to differ. Is there a comprehensive and reliable one anywhere?

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26th Feb 2016 15:08

Can you really not do this very simple calculation on a scrap of paper?

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26th Feb 2016 15:23

Fag[***] Packet

Or, if you smoke .......

As cheeky says, it sounds very straightforward.  If you can't work it out, you're relying too heavily on software.

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26th Feb 2016 17:06

don't make assumptions

Did I say I couldn't do it?

I post a question and two people make an assumption but don't bother to answer the question.

My assumption is that neither of them knows of anything that does the job.

One of them concludes that I am relying too heavily on software. I can find no evidence or even any suggestion of that in my original posting.

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26th Feb 2016 17:28

Implied

Joe Soap wrote:
Did I say I couldn't do it?
No, but it is implied by your question.

You are talking about a single client. For a single client, doing the calculations by hand is the easy answer if you know how. Using an automated tool only really makes sense if you want a quick way to do a lot of calculations.

You've found online tax calculators, but they "seem to differ". If you know how to do the calculation, then you should be able to tell if a particular calculator is coming up with the right answer or not. Just saying that they "seem to differ" indicates you are unable to tell.

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26th Feb 2016 18:04

Question

Joe Soap wrote:

Did I say I couldn't do it?

I post a question and two people make an assumption but don't bother to answer the question.

My assumption is that neither of them knows of anything that does the job.

One of them concludes that I am relying too heavily on software. I can find no evidence or even any suggestion of that in my original posting.

 

Your question is specific to a very simple situation. 

If you can't calculate it on a scrap of paper in under a couple of minutes, you shouldn't be offering tax services. 

Your claim that the calculators seem to differ doesn't help your claim that you know what you are doing.

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27th Feb 2016 09:35

Great !

Joe Soap wrote:

Did I say I couldn't do it?

But - why ask ?

At £40k, we're not even reaching higher rates.

If I had two software packages giving me different answers on such a simple data set, I'd quickly work out which was the one to dump.

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29th Feb 2016 09:32

It would

Joe Soap wrote:

Did I say I couldn't do it?

I post a question and two people make an assumption but don't bother to answer the question.

My assumption is that neither of them knows of anything that does the job.

One of them concludes that I am relying too heavily on software. I can find no evidence or even any suggestion of that in my original posting.

 

It would literally have been quicker to work it out than write this post, I timed myself and checked.

To answer your question I don't know of any offhand but if I was looking for one I'd use Google which will probably find you something useful and probably won't call you lazy or incompetent for asking. Of course, were I you I would then work it out myself because I wouldn't trust a calculator without checking. I do that on the software I use every day too.

It would seem I agree the only sensible answer is the answer you were given by the first two respondents as you'd be working it out either way so you might as well save yourself the search.

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26th Feb 2016 18:37

Give us the exact numbers

and there are numerous people who will give you the answer. 

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26th Feb 2016 19:05

@op you need to read your original question again. I suspect most people who read the OP probably came to the same conclusion as the first two posters, i.e. that you were not competent. The possibility that you are just lazy did occur to me, but I gave your incompetence the benefit of the doubt. It is noted that you have not given any evidence to refute any of the responses. 

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27th Feb 2016 13:20

why cant people just answer the question
Without unnecessary asides

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28th Feb 2016 10:44

Why asides

Because the question implies that the OP is either

not an accountant but someone looking to not pay an accountant for proper advice.an accountant that is not up to the job

Either way, just giving them an answer is not doing them any favours.

The former may end up thinking that an online calculator is the solution to all their problems. As we all know, there is much more to accounts advice than that.

The latter is going to come unstuck at some point with their clients. If they can't handle something simple like this then the odds are they are going to screw up something for a client sooner or later. Getting sued for screwing[***] up is rarely fun.

Also, to put it in a less altruistic light, some of us just get annoyed at those seeing this forum as the alternative to paid for advice/proper study and like to make that clear.

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28th Feb 2016 10:53

Different

I'm intrigued that there are two different answers for a relatively simple task.

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28th Feb 2016 12:26

stepurhan
You don't have to answer it was a simple question but you have overanalysed it which is unnecessary , yes we all get angry me included, personally I think it was a fair question

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By EASy
28th Feb 2016 12:45

Errrrrr.......

carnmores wrote:
You don't have to answer it was a simple question but you have overanalysed it which is unnecessary , yes we all get angry me included, personally I think it was a fair question

Why haven't you answered it then?!? *facepalm*

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28th Feb 2016 14:52

above

The OP asked a genuine question. I am a new member on here and all i actually see is bitchy comments in 90% of the threads without any real answers. If you do not want to answer the question fair enough but leave the bitching[***] out. 

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29th Feb 2016 09:02

Practice what you preach

In a Daze wrote:
I am a new member on here and all i actually see is bitchy comments in 90% of the threads without any real answers. If you do not want to answer the question fair enough but leave the bitching[***] out.
As you say you are a new member. If you are genuinely seeing 90% bitchy comments then you have just been unfortunate with the threads you have read. Take a bit longer and look around more. There are a lot of good positive discussions out there.

I've given my reasons why just answering the question is not doing the OP any favours. You may disagree with my reasoning, but it is hardly bitching[***].

In a Daze wrote:
I design my own calculators and take advice from tax experts when I am unsure of something. I do not mind sharing my knowledge if it is a quick answer, although I do not see the need for all the bitching[***] that goes on.It dose not help anyone which I assume a forum is for.
If you design your own calculators and do not mind sharing your knowledge, why are you not answering the question?
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29th Feb 2016 09:47

Not enough

stepurhan wrote:

If you design your own calculators and do not mind sharing your knowledge, why are you not answering the question?

There isn't enough information, is there ?

We have yet another OP who wants an answer to an incomplete question.

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28th Feb 2016 17:07

@In A Daze - if you feel the need to tell other people how they should respond perhaps you would like to start your own site where you can dictate the rules. There are many many occasions when just answering the question is very much not the best response. I notice that you did not bother to answer the question yet still posted your opinion. So your rules don't even apply to you, it seems. 

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28th Feb 2016 17:27

above

I design my own calculators and take advice from tax experts when I am unsure of something. I do not mind sharing my knowledge if it is a quick answer, although I do not see the need for all the bitching[***] that goes on.It dose not help anyone which I assume a forum is for.

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28th Feb 2016 17:32

Not necessarily

In a Daze wrote:

I design my own calculators and take advice from tax experts when I am unsure of something. I do not mind sharing my knowledge if it is a quick answer, although I do not see the need for all the bitching[***] that goes on.It dose not help anyone which I assume a forum is for.

With all due respect, doing it for someone does not necessarily help.

What happens next time ?  Should they come back with the same question, different numbers ?

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29th Feb 2016 09:11

I see a common theme.

The members that moan about the responses are the members that don’t contribute on a regular basis. The ones that try and answer questions regularly have to consistently put up with those that are incompetent, leave important facts from their question, or just become abusive when they don’t receive the answer they wanted.

Carnmores, provide an answer or stop crying about other members.

My answer was a practical solution to a simple problem.

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29th Feb 2016 10:09

Enough in a way

I agree there is not enough info to provide a figure. However, the OP asked for a calculator, and In a Daze would appear to be in a position to share one.

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29th Feb 2016 11:17

Oh yes

So he does.

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29th Feb 2016 12:50

The above

I have not got a problem with supplying the OP with a calculator. I have not been posting on forums for long questions like the OPs just do not wind me up. maybe in a couple of years i will feel the same as you guys. 

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29th Feb 2016 14:48

amazing

The responses to a fairly simple question have amazed me.

Thank you to In a Daze and Carnmores who both read the question and responded sensibly

Lionofludesch and stepurhan really ought to have listened to their school teachers who will have told them many times to “read the question” and to “answer what is asked”.

Stephuran has inferred a great deal from my question; and most of what he has inferred was in no way implied in what I wrote.

To save you looking them up:

Implied - suggested but not directly expressed; implicit.

Inferred - deduced or concluded from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

However as there is no evidence in what I wrote for any of the things he has inferred they must have come from his own reasoning. I will leave you to form your own views on his reasoning abilities.

He reads my question as providing evidence that I am either

•not an accountant but someone looking to not pay an accountant for proper advice.

•an accountant that is not up to the job.

His statement that “As we all know, there is much more to accounts advice than that” implies that he provides accounts advice. I hope for the sake of his clients that he does not provide them with advice without having any real idea of their situation. I recommend to him that he always seeks as much information as is needed before coming to any conclusion.

This man, who knows nothing at all about me is drawing totally unfounded (and by the way inaccurate) conclusions about me, including that I may lack the intelligence to know that an online calculator is not the solution to all my problems.

In the same spirit I would advise potential clients to avoid an adviser who says that " Getting sued for screwing[***] up is rarely fun” as he implies that he has been in that situation a number of times and whilst most of them were not fun there was the rare occasion when it was.

Lionofludesch says “If I had two software packages giving me different answers on such a simple data set I’d quickly work out which was the one to dump.” Is there anyone here (including me) who wouldn’t?

But in order to come to a conclusion one would need to input the data and compare, and check, the answers. I didn’t do that. All I said was that they seemed to differ, not that they gave different results.

As I recall the two I looked at briefly did not allow for all the sources of income that I was dealing with so I ignored them.

He also says that “There isn't enough information, is there? We have yet another OP who wants an answer to an incomplete question.”

Why doesn’t he bother to read the question? I didn’t ask anyone to calculate anything. I asked for a simple tool – a comprehensive and reliable tax calculator, and to give stephuran some credit he agrees that I did not ask for a figure.

I will stop there - I have things to do, but I do wonder how long it will be before the bitching[***] resumes.

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29th Feb 2016 15:26

Aware of the difference

Joe Soap wrote:
Implied - suggested but not directly expressed; implicit.

Inferred - deduced or concluded from evidence and reasoning rather than from explicit statements.

For the reasons already given I would say that your question suggests that you do not know what you are doing. In the time that you took looking for calculators and posting the question, someone who did know what they were doing would just have done the calculation themselves for a single client. That you did not do that implies that you cannot do that. As I said, if you were looking to do a lot of calculations instead of just one then seeking a calculator makes a lot more sense for anyone.

They are really two sides of the same coin though. I infer my conclusion because your statement appears to imply it. See this comparison of the two.

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29th Feb 2016 14:57

Wow, a post that would make a politican proud. Attack, parry, joust, but provide no further information or insight whatsoever. So definitely not an accountant then (inferred).

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29th Feb 2016 15:06

Wow 2....

you could have written your own tax calculator in the time it took to write that reply (sarcasm)

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29th Feb 2016 15:28

OK

Well, OK then, the answer to the original question is no.

But that's less helpful than the answer I gave originally.

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29th Feb 2016 20:40

Wow 3

Tim Vane - what further information do you need to answer the question I originally asked? Yes or no is what is needed. If your answer is no why bother? If your answer is yes - just say so and  give a link or some indication of where to find it.

justsotax- I wrote my own on Friday. The reply earlier today was in gratitude to the   professionals (inferred - but on very scant evidence) who responded in - let us say - ways that were not particularly helpful (some sarcasm)

stephuran - you have no idea how many clients I have. I have spent too much time reading your responses. I have better  things to do than follow any link you provide.

lionofludesch - thank you for your (eventual) answer. But if your answer is no, why did you bother? Your original answer was of no help whatsoever - well not to me anyway. Any volunteers? You can go back to your subbuteo now.

 

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01st Mar 2016 07:17

Fail

Joe Soap wrote:

lionofludesch - thank you for your (eventual) answer. But if your answer is no, why did you bother? 

To prompt thought.

Unsuccessfully, it seems.

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By Brunel
01st Mar 2016 18:31

Have you wondered why

you are doing battle with so many respected members of this forum?

Your next post should be "I'll get my coat"

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29th Feb 2016 23:35

Well, if you really want an answer, the calculator I use most often is a casio fx-82. It's very old but quite reliable and has never had a problem with any taxyear I've tried it on. Nowadays however I must confess that I often find myself dallying with the calculator on my iPhone. Luckily, as far as I know, neither knows about the other, and they both seem to reach the same answers.

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01st Mar 2016 09:49

this kind of

thread does make you grateful about the training you received - especially the one where you learn to undertake manually calculating tax and reconciling a tax computation using the kind of calculator Tim Van refers to.

 

As for 'professionals', one wonders how your clients would perceive your request on an online forum for a calculator to work out their tax....

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01st Mar 2016 17:31

Figures

I'm wondering whether the absence of the figures in this case is to sidestep further derision.

Anyway - I have an important Subbuteo match ......

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01st Mar 2016 19:40

The ultimate ..

.. in "comprehensive and reliable"

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/fil...

Not that easy to use, but it has settled one or two AW arguments in the past.

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