Taxation Disciplinary Board

Taxation Disciplinary Board

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Has anyone ever been accused of something by one body for the Taxation Disciplinary Board to pick it up? They insist I cannot resign (and concentrate on fighting the appeal to the body that a false claim was made to) until they've had a discplinary committee - though had they had an immediate response I might have been able to pay a fine - but that's not an immediate assumption of guilt of course you should pay fines if you're innocent to them.

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By carnmores
09th Dec 2011 12:44

here is the nonsense from them

In 2001 the Chartered Institute of Taxation ("the Institute") and The Association of Taxation Technicians ('the Association') established an independent Taxation Disciplinary Scheme, to handle complaints made in regard to the professional conduct of members and students of the two bodies. One of the objectives was to ensure that there was a common approach to procedures and philosophy in handling disciplinary matters, with a consequent improvement in efficiency and effectiveness. In addition, there was an awareness of the concepts of the Human Rights Act and in particular the need for complaints regarding alleged breaches of professional rules of conduct to be considered by a tribunal which was independent of the body establishing the rules. Therefore, the disciplinary arrangement, although established by the Institute and the Association, is administered through the independent Taxation Disciplinary Board Limited. Members of the various committees and tribunals set up by the Board consist of individuals who have no current involvement with the professional standards setting of the participating bodies.

 

 

note the rubbish about awareness of the concepts of the HRA - only when it suits them! i think that they cannot stop you resigning and that you fine you is prejudicial

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By Frustrated Accountant
09th Dec 2011 12:55

Thanks for your reply. No complaint has been made to them.

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By Steve McQueen
09th Dec 2011 13:10

The ICAEW have similar rules...

... and my good friend Albert Camus of this site became embroiled in that bodies arcane disaplinary structures when he became ill with a mental health problem.

Essentially, for one letter that dismissed a clients complaint as "froth" he was banned from being and ACA and fined £30,000, he was deigned any right of appeal - being incapasitated during the window they gave he to appeal - and his £1 million practice was given to another firm for free by the ICAEW.

All of these "professional bodies" ignore human rights and ride rough-shod over the laws of the land, but none of us have the power, time or money to fight them and make them what they should be, which is in my opinion, groups there to represent us.

Steve

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By carnmores
09th Dec 2011 13:14

well

in that case i cant see that an independent body can refer matters to itself, tho you say that a claim has not been made so i dont quite follow - the people who work for these bodies as oppossed to panel  , which has some reasonable faces on it - do not seem to understand the principles of  natural justice

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By Frustrated Accountant
09th Dec 2011 13:21

The ICAEW publishes its hearings. As such the TDB has read it (though not the background or the detail of the case which is being appealed). No-one has formally made any complaints to them. There must be something in the rules about them being allowed to do this - and something that stops you from being able to resign (though I don't know where to start to look - like most I was keeping up with tax law changes rather than changes in professional standards). That second part is certainly something that is not true for the ICAEW which does allow you to resign (and find their rules).

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By Steve McQueen
09th Dec 2011 13:39

ICAEW rules...

"...not true for the ICAEW which does allow you to resign... " Frustrated Accountant

 

The ICAEW does not allow you to resign if you have any outstanding disaplinary issues... or let's put it this way, Albert was not allowed to resign and was swiftly pointed to some subsection of the rule book when he tried to resign whilst having an outstanding disaplinary.

You could just stop paying your sub's?

They will cessate your membership quick as a flash for that and will suspend any disaplinary actions when they do.

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By Frustrated Accountant
09th Dec 2011 14:10

Ah but trying to rush it through to next week (having just sent a letter to say I can't resign) so they can get their charges in before the 01/01 renewal date. But it's not about trying to make money at all of course. And it's even possible they may find me not guilty even though they've already suggested paying a fine would have been possible earlier. Do these people know anything about being professional?

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By Steve McQueen
09th Dec 2011 14:42

"And it's even possible they

"And it's even possible they may find me not guilty " Frustrated Accountant

Sorry, but you have no chance of this.

No one who is disaplined by any of the bodies is ever found "not guilty".

You will be found guilty, its just a question of what they will do to you.

I would strongly suggest that you get some legal help, otherwise you will be tied up in legal knots and b******s and they will hang you... but I would not use one particular lawyer. If you PM me I will tell you his name, but I cannot tell you my reasons.

Steve

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Mark Lee headshot 2023
By Mark Lee
12th Dec 2011 11:46

What rot

Specific examples of apparent 'rough justice' do not justify the inaccurate broad assertion that no one is ever found 'not guilty'.

The ICAEW has an investigation process and a distinct disciplinary process. In the past 3 months I have sat through two separate presentations as to how these work and the safeguards that both contain to avoid unfair or unreasoned decisions.

As part of my ongoing research for my talks on how to avoid negligence claims I have also spoken with ICAEW members who have been the subject fo spurious complaints and who have nothing but praise for the even-handed way that the ICAEW dealt with the matter.

There are two sides to every story.

Mark

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By carnmores
12th Dec 2011 12:14

Mark

i hear what you say , but on balance i have to say the practice does not always follow the theory- for example if there are outstanding complaints against an ex memeber he cannot be readmitted until these are dealt with however spurious  - this is plain wrong and about as clear  a breach of the individuals human rights as you can get

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By Frustrated Accountant
12th Dec 2011 12:26

I've read Mark Lee's posts in the past - such as his assertion that engagement letters don't put off smaller clients (when anyone in smaller practices know full well it makes them think they are getting into some enormous contract they won't be able to get out of and won't understand). Mark is clearly not from a small practice background but still feels able to dismiss what is reality for many from his lack of personal experience on the subject.

Mr Lee you didn't ask me what I thought about the process and you certainly haven't seen my case - but please don't let that stop you commenting on it, as though your assumptions from a base of no personal knowledge, as fact. I'm not publishing details on it - this was merely a question about the detailed rules of the CIOT.

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Replying to cheekychappy:
Red Leader
By Red Leader
12th Dec 2011 13:19

engagement letters

Off topic, but picking up a point mentioned above: I have a small practice and I rarely if ever have a problem getting clients to sign engagement letters. My shortest version is 7 pages. Ltd co 10 pages.

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By Frustrated Accountant
13th Dec 2011 11:56

And I've had people go elsewhere as a result. Depends on the client - if they've come from a larger practice it's no problem. If they've come from unqualifieds it definitely can be.

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