Two P60's for same employment

Two P60's for same employment

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New client (now a limited company) was a freelance cameraman during 2011/12 tax year, some as an employee of a production company and some as self employed.  As he worked on and off for the production company they did not issue a P45 but gave him a P60..all good so far. I sent him his tax return and the question of student loans came up, he said that he had made repayments through his salary but as none were showing on the P60 I got him to query this.

The payroll dept then said "Oh I expect you need the other P60" which covers you as staff (as opposed to freelance). They have sent a copy and I thought perhaps they had two schemes going, but the references are the same.  This P60 shows about a quarter of the income of the first one and also the student loan deductions. Both P60's show full personal allowances. I have never come across anything like this before and not sure how to proceed- do I show these separately and hope that the return passes validation.  Do I add them together as the references are the same, obvioulsy have to check that the figures for 2 and not included in 1, and by the way, how do you get two P60's for one empoyee under the same reference!

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By Sarah P
19th Jul 2012 15:49

I'd be worried that

they had applied the personal allowance twice.

I think I would add them together (assuming you are not double counting).

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By neileg
19th Jul 2012 15:58

Not that unusual

It's quite possible to have two separate employments with the same employer. Some payroll systems can handle two contracts and produce one P60, some can't and you would end up with two. HMRC will accept this.

I too am worried, though, about two lots of personal allownace.

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By petersaxton
19th Jul 2012 16:02

Your choice

You can show separate employments or you can combine them as the PAYE reference is the same.

The advantage of keeping them separate is that it will be able to track the figures on the tax return to the P60s. if you combine them you may panic when the total doesn't agree to a P60 if you review it later.

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By K81
19th Jul 2012 16:31

This is quite a common scenario especially with Bank nurses who work full time for a particular health trust & also do overtime on the bank system. The bank work is set up as secondary employment.

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Replying to johngroganjga:
By petersaxton
19th Jul 2012 16:45

Why?

K81 wrote:

This is quite a common scenario especially with Bank nurses who work full time for a particular health trust & also do overtime on the bank system. The bank work is set up as secondary employment.

What's the point?

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Replying to TheLambtonWorm:
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By neileg
20th Jul 2012 12:03

The point is

petersaxton wrote:

K81 wrote:

This is quite a common scenario especially with Bank nurses who work full time for a particular health trust & also do overtime on the bank system. The bank work is set up as secondary employment.

What's the point?

They are separate employments with different terms and conditions including different rates of pay.
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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By markfaherty
25th Jul 2012 11:26

Doctors in NHS Trusts

K81 wrote:

This is quite a common scenario especially with Bank nurses who work full time for a particular health trust & also do overtime on the bank system. The bank work is set up as secondary employment.

It's also common with NHS Trusts where specialists provide their services to different departments. I've had a doctor with the exact same scenario; two P60's, same reference and two lots of PA. I declared them on the return as separate employments to avoid a mis-match with that reported on the P14's to the Revenue which could lead to an unneccessary enquiry. The client has to, of course, pay the under-deducted tax.

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By hkfinancials
19th Jul 2012 17:32

NIC

Saving NIC perhaps as the software treats them as two different employees?

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By carnmores
19th Jul 2012 17:32

well it maybe to do with the Film & TV regs

some types of jobs are deemed to be self employed an other not - in addition the NI treatment for some self employed persons is not straight forward and needs to be alculated thro payroll

from the manuals http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/esmmanual/ESM4112.htm

booklet http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/specialist/film_industry.htm

i would put in 2 employments and make a white note

 

 

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By two sheds
20th Jul 2012 09:32

Thanks all

I think i will do two separate pages after making sure there's no duplication...you learn something new every day!

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By carnmores
21st Jul 2012 12:02

BTW slightly off topic

there is  a need for 2 employments on a computer payroll when someone changes status ie from employee to director 

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By petersaxton
21st Jul 2012 13:06

Why?

It's still possible to treat a director as an employee in certain situations and most payroll packages can deal with the change in any case.

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By DMGbus
21st Jul 2012 20:10

Happens with Council employees too

I had a case earlier this year of a classroom assistant working part-time.

Actually, for first time 2011/12, had two P60 forms from the same (Council) employer.

Had gone from one part-time job to two for the same employer.    Client didn't volunteer this information, it came to light when the one P60 provided to me didn't seem correct in terms of PAYE code number and tax deducted.   After querying matters with the client it turned out that a second part-time employment had taken place and then client presented me with the second P60 form.

Nothing to do with freelancing, pure employment in this case.   Initially confusing but eventually understood / unravelled.

 

 

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By stratty
25th Jul 2012 11:19

Underpaid Student Loan

Part of the problem here will be that the splitting of salary artificially lowers the amount liable to Student Loan so the deductions are not as high as perhaps they should be.

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By petersaxton
25th Jul 2012 11:50

Student loan

That should get picked up if the taxpayer is subject to self assessment or the taxpayers liability is reviewed later.

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By mydoghasfleas
25th Jul 2012 12:21

Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity

My favourite Bullet tooth Tony phrase

Was your client aware he had 2 P60's?  If so why did he only give you one of them, what was he playing at?

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By petersaxton
25th Jul 2012 12:29

Common problem

Clients seem to think you don't need information for business credit cards or deposit accounts.

 

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By twosheds
25th Jul 2012 12:35

@mydog

 

Client had only been sent one P60-the one with the greater figures on and as worked for them sporadically thought it all looked okay-I do have some divvy clients but he's not one of them!

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By rockallj
25th Jul 2012 12:46

Can also happen if switching timing of payments

This can also happen if switching timing of payments, say from weekly to monthly processing. 

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By Healthpay
25th Jul 2012 12:58

@mydoghasfleas

The two P60s isn't the problem!

There are two errors here I can see from the employer:

- the tax code should be split between the employments - although if the employer has done P45/P46 procedures correctly the onus is then back on HMRC

- the employer should have given both P60s to the employee by 19th May. Not doing so is an offence

And of course the employee should then give you both!

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By David C Moore
25th Jul 2012 13:53

Have come across this with a Police Officer, retired, one payslip for pension paid by the force. He then went back to work for them in another capacity. So 2 P60's. One showed full allowance and the other BR code. Picked up by HMRC for a number of years. Massive underpayment of tax as the combined income made him higher rate tax payer.

Another time acted for a Consultant, who when training was paid hy one NHS trust and then by another on qualifing, same payroll dept for a number of trusts. As the change of status and P45 were internal, and income when changing was a massive increase to salary, for some reason an assumption was made and a BR code used. A good half of the salary should have been 40% taxed. Again an underpayment.

Used ESC to stop repayment, in the second case wase told that the problem was a PAYE issue, (Section 78) if I remember right. So they were rejecting ESC and asking the employer to make good the repayment to HMRC. Employer can refuse, if they did then it was back to ESC. This was verbal from the tax office, explaining why it might be delayed. Dawned on me later that the government were the employer in this instance, so asking itself to make good the tax?

Assume tax is due because of 2 allowances used. Appeal using the PAYE regulations as the taxpayer is not at fault.

Early 80's remember 2 different tax offices giving 2 allowances to different employers. Same result ESC to cancel addition tax.

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By JohnBanfield
25th Jul 2012 20:56

2 P60s

Probably not relevant to the original scenario, but if you submit a P60 to HMR&C, and later find out that it's incorrect, you have to issue another (and revised P35) for the difference only.

John

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By kudlit
01st Aug 2013 04:44

Why do they have to make it so complicated?

I mean, aren't we giving them money? It should be really simple. 

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Finance EZI

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