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What to do about the National Insurance Number if Director is foreign national

I need to register a client company for a PAYE scheme.

Company is UK registered, employee would be UK resident with a National Insurance number but the sole Director is a German and lives in Germany and has no UK NI number.

HMRC have written to say that they cannot register the company without the director's NI number.

Please could anyone advise how to go about this? Thanks

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07th Feb 2013 10:54

Have you tried ...

... the New Employer's Helpline on 0845 607 0143?

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By aadil
07th Feb 2013 11:01

No, I shall try now

Thanks Euan

I shall try them.

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By aadil
08th Feb 2013 16:47

HMRC have refused

I phoned HMRC and they insist that the foreign Director apply for a NI Number.

I guess he does that or appoints a local director?

 

 

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08th Feb 2013 17:39

Hmmm...

aadil wrote:
I phoned HMRC and they insist that the foreign Director apply for a NI Number. I guess he does that or appoints a local director?

On what statutory basis do they insist that a non-resident, foreign director has to apply for an NI number?

The procedure for obtaining an NI number is not straight-forward and I'm pretty sure that not having a UK residence would make it a non-starter. Certainly as far as I am aware (happy to be corrected) this can only be done in person at a job centre, which would seem particularly onerous for a foreign resident who has no need for an NI number other than to fulfil some bogus bureaucratic requirement.

I suggest you make an official complaint and request that the matter be referred either to someone with knowledge of how the UK tax system should operate in regard to non-UK residents or alternately the HMRC Centre for Non-Residents.

HMRC can't have it both ways, either they need to provide an unnecessary NI number or an appropriate dummy reference (as used to be the case) for the purposes of filing or they need to allow the processing to be completed without the requirement of an NI number.

The reason I say this is that to do otherwise would be discriminatory to EU citizens who are not UK residents, but wish to operate a company in the UK and therefore in violation of the UK's EU treaty commitments under the EU Single Market provisions.

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08th Feb 2013 17:21

Duplicate comment

.

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07th Feb 2013 11:46

Dummy NI number as advised by employer's helpline.

I have successfully set up a PAYE scheme where the director is a foreign national using the NI number AB123456C.

I was advised by the new employer's helpline to do this and they said it was a pretty common occurence.

Regards

Joy

 

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12th May 2016 11:45

Joy - is that you from Harlow Butler days?

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07th Feb 2013 12:48

RTI

I thought RTI didn't allow this?

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07th Feb 2013 16:23

HMRC are going to have to allow something

Democratus wrote:
I thought RTI didn't allow this?

Yes. I suspect that you are right and RTI will start rejecting RTI records that it can't process because there is no matching reference on their end, the problem is "What happens then?".

A non-resident foreigner has absolutely no need of an NI number, but an NI number is a fundamental requirement for PAYE processing and also RTI.

Seems like the usual Catch 22, with computerisation and bureaucratic procedures being tripped up by nasty little facts like real-life, real-people, real-world.

RTI is going to be just another HMRC screw-up from start to finish.

Starting to seriously think about retiring properly.

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Eh?

As I'd understood it, the OP wants a PAYE Scheme for a company with one employee who has a valid National Insurance number.

In order to set up a PAYE Scheme though HMRC need a National Insurance number entered in some obscure field on their computer, so there's workaround that's a common occurence.

Under RTI, that director won't be paid. Only the employee with the valid National Insurance number will.

Under RTI, the National Insurance number can be omitted for someone that doesn't have one, provided the name, addess, date of birth and gender fields are properly populated (see HERE).

I'm reticent to suggest that RTI will be a resounding success, but declaring it in advance to be a screw up from start to finish, based on a manufactured (and non-existent) deficiency does seem a tad unfair.

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By Annetax
06th Jun 2013 12:11

HELP!

We are struggling with this ourselves. We have a client that is a UK incorporated company, with non-resident French directors, that wants to set up a PAYE scheme from April 2013 for 2013/14 for a new UK resident employee. We were told we couldn't set it up the scheme online and had to write in but this was several weeks ago now. My colleague has just made 9 separate phone calls and been pushed around various HRMC departments without any success at all. We have been told 'yes, the French nationals need to come to the UK and get NI numbers' and 'No, they don't'.  It is a complete farce! In these days of increased international trading, how incompetent does this make the UK look? Meanwhile, how are they supposed to pay their employee?

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By aeXea
11th Apr 2016 18:14

What we do...

... is we provide to that companies a service of our 'nominee director' (just for 4 weeks) and register for PAYE with nominee's NIN.

Then, RTI is OK. about having no NIN by such directors to pay them salary.

The only problem we try to resolve now is about the yearly self-assessment for those nonUK resident directors without NIN.

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By plokiju
07th Apr 2015 18:13

Yearly self-assessment for nonUK resident directors without NIN

Hi aeXea,

I am in the same situation regarding the yearly self-assessment for those nonUK resident directors without NIN. What solution did you find ?

 

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By aeXea
11th Apr 2016 18:11

Re: Yearly self-assessment for nonUK resident directors

Still waiting a written response from HMRC. Have spoken them several times but they seem not having any real and certain answer. 

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By gedhull
19th Aug 2015 15:59

Solution

I've just had the same problem.

Called the new employers helpline 0300 200 3211and a very helpful chap registered the PAYE scheme there and then and provided the references. He had the ability to simply ignore the directors NINO question, he just needed the full name and date of birth of one of the overseas directors.

Extremely good service I have to say.

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By aeXea
11th Apr 2016 18:13

Re: Solution

gedhull wrote:

I've just had the same problem.

Called the new employers helpline 0300 200 3211and a very helpful chap registered the PAYE scheme there and then and provided the references. He had the ability to simply ignore the directors NINO question, he just needed the full name and date of birth of one of the overseas directors.

Extremely good service I have to say.

Yes, sometimes they help and register for PAYE, sometimes for some reason not. Anyway, still problem with Self-Assessment without NINo. 

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16th Sep 2016 17:19

please if somebody knows how to finish yearly self-assessment for those nonUK resident directors without NIN, let me know. (income les then 10000 pounds a year)

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