2008 Online Filing

2008 Online Filing

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Following on from previous posts on this topic. To summarise - on completing the tax return (well actually a questionnaire) but before submitting, there is no longer the facility to save/print a pdf version of the full tax return which includes the pages for client's signature. At present all we get is pages and pages of the questionnaire we have just completed without a tax calculation (can be printed off separately), nor client signing pages. I am not sure about anyone else, but I could not send this to any of my clients.

Help line told me that as I have a 64-8, the client doesn't need to sign the return - I can just go ahead and submit it!! Any comments on this?

Or I can download a paper return, complete it by hand, get my client to sign it and then go online, complete their questionnaire and submit it.

I have now sent an email to [email protected]. I have no idea whether this is a relevant email address but searching the web site, this seems as near as I could get. I have complained about their latest rewrite, have asked when we can expect the pdf download and client signature pages to be available and have put them on notice that until I receive notification these facilities are available I will be dowloading and completing paper returns, but will be submitting by post, not online. I have also advised them that if this is still not available after 31st October, I will continue to submit paper returns and will be appealing any penalties on the basis the online filing site is unworkable for an Agent.

This is really adding to earlier posts warning about this problem and suggesting that if you use HMRC software to file returns, you should possibly start contacting the Revenue now, because the more complaints they get, the more likely they are to take some notice.

Meantime, if all interested parties comment here and ask to be advised of further comments by email, I will update this when and if I get a response.
Anne White

Replies (10)

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By whiteandco
02nd Jun 2008 18:22

Update
Thanks for all your replies.
My email to the sdsteam, resulted in a response from Tony Musk stating they would be referring it to the Online Services Helpdesk. To my email stating I had already been there, Nick Lynch, Self Assessment Incident & Problem Support Manager thanked me and declared a full response will be issued to me shortly. That was 28th April and to date I have heard nothing. I have just sent them a reminder and will continue doing so!
As a matter of interest Jennifer, I note you say that a number of people at the Workshop showed they used the HMRC system. Did they also ask how many people were filing online? About 3 or 4 years ago I was one of over 100 people at such a meeting and they asked that question and only my hand went up. It occurred to me that they think the rest of the meeting are using commercial software, which may just be incorrect.
As stated in my original post, I did relent and purchase TaxCalc, which I have to say works like a dream. However, this is only a licence for year and the cost is disproportionate to the income I receive for this work and unless this problem is solved will become an annual overhead.
I am about to submit my husband's tax return (well he can be the guinea pig!) using HMRC system. I read in later posts that HMRC are not sending acknowledgments and the summary page doesn't show the Return as having been submitted. This too I find extremely worrying as in the past I have had an incident where IR have said they have not received a Return. The email acknowledgment nailed it!
I am then going to submit my own hand written paper tax return. I am now testing this part of the system. Initially HMRC website said we could only submit paper returns that had been sent out by the individual tax offices. I tried this and it took me half an hour to get through to request a copy. As my Clients are spread nationwide, I would have to repeat this exercise numerous times (in fact it was that fact that persuaded me to invest in TaxCalc). However, subsequently I see we are referred to the blank tax return on the website. As this has the top of the front page blank, i.e. no little boxes in which to put our machine readable letters, I am interested to see if this will be accepted.
I notice from the site here a few more complaints, unfortunately this one is quite old and no longer attracts new readers. I believe that unless some sort of joint action is initiated, Jennifer is correct, HMRC will do nothing. In fact a later answer thinks they maybe making themselves Practioner unfriendly on purpose to push us all to the commercial software and that person may well have a point.
However, it is my very strong opinion that if HMRC are forcing online filing, they should provide a reasonable facility to achieve this.
Will keep you posted as I progress on my little crusade!

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By georgelewislimited
08th May 2008 14:52

Grrr
I would like to be kept informed.

At the fourth time of asking about the PDF issue, I was advised on nthe 18th April that this "urgent issue" was being investigated. Thus far, nada.

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By LJCWBW
03rd May 2008 12:30

Online filing
Last Fri (25th) I attended an HMRC Online Services Workshop with other local practitioners and 'customers' of the Revenue where we were asked how many present used HMRC software and there were a number of people who put their hand up. We all complained about the lack of pdf Tax return and just got a 'email/ write on the sheet we will give you at the end of the session and it will be looked into' reply. The lecturers then proceeded to try to tell us how wonderful the site was etc etc

My small number of (elderly) clients wont understand the questionnaire - its too long and too messy and they will not be happy in not being able to sign something that looks like a return. (I too am worried about PI). Some clients have queried the fact that they received just a piece of paper requesting a return this year as I submitted all online last year using HMRC programme. I took over the small practice last year and it was all I could do to make them appreciate that the return would not longer be prepared by hand!

You can forget about a pdf return on the Revenue website - it wont happen. The Online workshops have been going for some weeks now and nothing has been done so far has it? At the Seminar we were told to keep looking at the 'Working Together' website for any notification that it will happen... nothing so far. I dont have time to wait - this is costing me money.

So after spending time loading onto the Revenue website in previous years I too am going to have to relent and purchase a commercial package.

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By User deleted
01st May 2008 17:30

Totally agree with Anne
Having just started on the tax returns, after wading through the PAYE year end filing, I was also horrified to see the disappearance of the pdf return and in its place a badly designed summary list, and no signature for authority page.
I may also have to buy a tailored package, which is a shame, as the revenue online system was fine last year and worked well, I suppose one way would be to send the detailed calculation to the client (I think it has a number stamp on it) and ask for a confirmation email quoting the number stamp and giving authority as complete, as the calculation would show all income sources.
Would that work ?
IS it worth complaining? I have already done so but such a little voice compared to the large practices.
Any recommendations for the software ? for a small practice ?

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By User deleted
01st May 2008 12:01

Are these any use
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/forms/net-07-08.htm#a

I do empathise with your predicament and my last post did not make this clear. I hope your new software is much better.

Am I mistaken in the following regarding our imported tax system:-

Do elderly and less well off folk in Aus, USA and Canada have a government funded troop of students and volunteers who help the disadvantaged navigate their way through the tax system?

Addendum
Can you use a TR6 signature page of a blank downloaded return. I doubt this would satisfy your insurers, but it would highlight the lengths you have gone to.

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By User deleted
01st May 2008 18:10

revenue link to authority statement
https://online.inlandrevenue.gov.uk/application?namespace=re&origin=faqM...

Found the above limk which is an authority referenced to the stamp on the return copy.
May help ?

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By R W Meredith
01st May 2008 16:46

2008 HMRC Filing Software
I totally agree with Anne.

I am in a very similar position as regards clients and if I am to download a Return for the client to sign before I submit the online 'questionnaire' I may as well just copy it and mail it. It will be much quicker all round. If enough agents do this then HMRC may then review what they have done and provide a PDF version.

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By whiteandco
30th Apr 2008 18:31

I help elderly people and small sole traders
John, your comments are noted and I had picked up on the fact that HMRC do not require a wet signature. I am not so sure about PI Insurers if there were to be a claim!
But more importantly is the fact we cannot download a pdf version of the tax return (I can send you a copy of what we can download, if you are interested), nor does it come up as a pdf version online for clients to review.
Equally important is that many of the people I help do not use computers or, if they do, only in a very simple way - believe it or not there are people out there who do not even own a computer and it is my view we are fast becoming a two tier society with those without computers extremely disadvantaged.
For the Revenue to make online filing obligatory they must give us the tools and I consider the downloading of a pdf version an extremely vital tool. Someone has to stand up for the section of the population who either cannot afford or do not have the aptitude to work computers.
Actually the redesigned tax return is an embarrassment - it takes me back to the 1970's when we all used to have to spend hours filling in little pre-designed boxes on thousands of invoices, which all were delivered to the main frame airconditioned dust free computer room, where woman used to sit and spend all day inputting data via tiny little keypads. Now you know how old I am!
I now have a confession - after wasting 2 days I could not afford on battling with the Revenue website, emailing the Revenue and noticing the lack of response here to my rallying cry, I relented and purchased a commercial package. It annoys me to have to do so, and I won't recoup the cost on the few tax returns I do complete, but the loss is less than the amount I would lose if continuing to do battle with HMRC software!

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
30th Apr 2008 13:06

Signatures are no longer required
Hi Anne,

At a recent talk, HMRC official Nigel Henshaw explained, "We no longer require a wet signature if it's sent online. An email statement is acceptable."

If the SA Online system doesn't give you a suitable summary page, you could always get the client to review their return online. When a return is ready for filing, Henshaw said the online system generates a 32-digit identity code. If you include that in an email to the client asking for approval, the return mail will verify that the authorisation relates to that exact return.

As Anon has already pointed out, if you're doing more than just a few returns, the efficiencies you get in data entry, online filing and record-keeping from commercial software will more than outweigh the costs.

John Stokdyk
Technology editor
AccountingWEB.co.uk

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By User deleted
28th Apr 2008 16:27

HMRC Software
I cannot help thinking that it's best to use commercial software.

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