I applied for an ACCA Practising Certificate in August last year following the death of my father but it has been rejected but now put forward to the waiver committee.
Let me give you some background:
My father set up the practice in 1969 and was a Chartered Secretary in Private Practice. I joined the firm in 1990 when, to be honest, it was financially on its knees and helped Dad modernise and develop the business (working for peanuts as you do working for family!).
In 1999 I started taking the ACCA examinations and completed all 14 papers over 3 years (whilst working full time) passing every paper first time and, with my father's supporting submissions evidencing experience, became an ACCA member in December 2002. In December 2007 I became a Fellow of the Association.
I had not applied for a Practising Certificate previously as my father was still at the head of the practice even though, in reality, I had become the leading figure in terms of attracting new clients etc but it had always been agreed between us that I would only take the lead when he was happy to relinquish control. I was not comfortable being the certificate holder if he was still going to call all the shots.
We agreed that Dad would go into semi-retirement towards the end of 2010 and therefore from 2007 we started preparing my PCTR (Practising Certificate Training Record). I believe Dad had spoken to the ACCA and had understood that they would look at my application once that was done. What I now understand is that his signature was fine for membership but as the firm was not an ACCA Approved Employer it would be rejected for the Practising Certificate.
Everything was going fine with 2 and a half years of PCTR completed with the final period running to 31 May 2010 but on 25 April 2010 Dad was unexpectedly admitted to hospital (6 days before my wedding day), went into a coma on 27 April 2010 and died on 10 May 2010.
Once things calmed down my application to the ACCA went in in early August. My sister took control of our "non qualified" practice on the understanding that in reality Dad wanted me to take control, and I wanted to take control, but I needed the Practising Certificate from ACCA to do so.
I heard back from the ACCA declining the application because Dad was not a member of a recognised body sufficient for the Practising Certificate criteria but that my application could be put forward to the Waiver Committee.
I gathered a volume of references (including from three other ACCA Practising Certificate holders), wrote a full report and waited. Time passed (7 months!) and only now have I heard back that the Committee will hear the application next month and that I should attend the hearing.
I have to prove the circumstances are exceptional and explain why I hadn't joined an ACCA Approved Employer. The problem was my loyalty to the family practice - had I left the practice would have collapsed and there is no doubt over that. Even if I had joined a firm and taken the clients with me where would that have left my parents?
So, here I am an FCCA with 20 years experience completely capable of doing everything I need to do with my PCTR having more ticks next to categories of experience than most I'm sure and yet I am on the verge of having to resign should my application be declined. It pains me to consider that someone with far less experience gets waved straight through purely because an ACCA Employer signs them off.
Yes in theory I could go and work for someone, or merge the firms but that was never the plan and financially it would make no sense bearing in mind we have built a 300 client practice and the business is doing well. I just cannot allow the practice with 42 years history to die.
Yes, also in theory it would make no real difference being "non qualified" and I could apply to other professional bodies should I choose to (any recommendations as to which is best?!) but that is not why I studied to ultimately become an ACCA member (or indeed a Fellow).
I am pushing ahead with the ACCA Practising Certificate Application because I want the business to develop and succeed but the whole system just feels so unjust right now and, yes I guess today I feel rather disillusioned so I am looking to my accounting web colleagues for advice!
Has anyone got any experience of the Waiver Committee and particularly what are they looking for me to prove as being exceptional circumstances?
Replies (37)
Please login or register to join the discussion.
No Constructive advice
I've got no constructive advice to offer, but wish you well. It sounds like in a sane world it should be approved.
As above
Sorry I also can't give any advice but will agree that ACCA's rules for practising certificates are ridiculous.
I do however wish you all the best in your hearing.
Mike
The ACCA do not care and they are not worth the effort.......
If they can be cavalier as to suggest that only by working for an ACCA approved practice you are worthy of their PC, then are they worth it? I didn't even bother with a PC (I trained in an unapproved ACCA practice too) in the end and resigned, despite being FCCA for 5 years and a member for 10. I resigned from ACCA on 1 April this year and you will not believe the indignant tone in response to my resignation letter. If that's how they want to treat someone who has spent literally £2,000 in subs, exams etc in the last 10 years, then I'm glad I did so.
When looking for a succession partner I came across a few people who are AAT members in practice and licenced. Many of them have undertaken ACCA studies but they are breaking the ACCA rules if they do more than bookkeeping, VAT and payroll.
If the choice is between a good client base, firm AND YOUR LIVELIHOOD and satisfying the ACCA's draconian PC rules, I think it's a straightforward choice. I really do sincerely wish you the best for your appeal and hope you get the decision overturned in your favour.
ACCA you are likely to lose yet another decent certified accountant due to your pathetic rules.
ACCA...MADNESS
I dont usually comment on here but my goodness this is UTTER UTTER MADNESS, as a fellow FCCA with a practising certficate I can not express what utter madness this is.
The ACCA need to get a a grip on reality - dont we have enough to contend with without this type of stupidity!?
If you need a letter of support from another FCCA member I'll gladly do one for you if it helps.
I truly wish you all the best and hope the ACCA see the light.
Yes Youngloch
I agree fullheartedly with your sentiments. I too sweat tears and hours of work in exams and 5 years of evening classes to pass my AAT and then ACCA. But just because you did not train with an ACCA approved firm does not mean that you are incapable, or unworthy of their PC. I trained with a Chartered firm, but it accounts for nothing as far as the ACCA are concerned. But their rules much as they are mean I cannot hold their PC. How daft is that?
It took me months to make the decision to resign as an ACCA member, but it does not mean I am not fully qualifed and it doesn't mean they can take away my qualification or demean it. I simply don't belong to the "club" anymore or use the letters.
I have an AAT PC and they are more helpful, have more relevent and local courses to me, they have excellent local branches and CPD accessibility. Going the AAT route is not a backward step. It is one I have taken because of my hand being forced and I have no regrets.
Still, I hope they see sense and grant you your appeal.
IF you can't get ACCA, try ICPA
I'd suggest ICPA if you don't get anywhere with ACCA. They're not CCAB but are reputable in their own right and only need references from other professionals to support membership applications to prove you've been in practice and are of good standing. What's more important membership includes PI Insurance and online CPD as well as discounts for software, tax enquiry insurance, etc etc. They're far more helpful for the small practitioner and do support your needs - unlike the ACCA who really should get a grip! I'm FCCA and many times have seriously considered giving it up because they provide no help or support at all - it's only the worry of rule tightening and maybe extending small company audits again that frightens me into keeping the ACCA status.
AAT Licensed Member in Practice is a good 'second best'
I am in the same position as you in that I qualified ACCA but critically had moved to industry prior to qualification. Some years ago ACCA said that I could re-apply via the waiver committee provided I paid the 10 or so years back membership fees. Instead I joined the MAAT Lic MIP scheme. They give good support, are recognised by 106 lenders, are an approved organisation for money laundering supervision and most importantly ... clients don't give a stuff really. ACCA don't exactly get a great press on here from members so perhaps looking elsewhere is not a bad idea.
@Steve Holloway
InterestingSteve that ACCA re-approached you after a few years, so I assume you must have resigned too?
I wonder if after 10 years, perhaps they will ask ex-members and FCCAs like me and Youngloch if we would like to rejoin.
Opposite direction I suspect ...
I asked them earlier this year whether the opportunity still existed for me to re-join via the waiver route ... was left in no dount that it was not. I only really asked them to assess my options should legislation ever be introduced to protect the 'accountant' title or some other similar provision. I suspect that the AAT being recognised as a money laundering supervisor (the only non CCAB I think) would see me OK anyway.
Practice
Good luck with the ACCA. Sorry to hear of your father's passing. You can practice/ complete your ACCA PC requirements. under our name if you like. We won't want anything for it, just so long as it can be structured in such a way as to avoid financial risk or undue time resources to us in respect of your practice work.
I know of similar situation some years ago, however ACCA were fairly accomondating there, and so you might be OK anyway.
General Practice (PC) - non audit
I agree that for a PC in GP, rather than audit it is absolute overkill. Oh well, 'tis the ACCA's loss not mine.
I sympathise with Steve Holloway's thoughts about prof bodies and HMRC approval. It crossed my mind and hence my reluctance up to recently to resign. But I'm afraid that after turning away perfectly good final accounts and tax work because my professional body wont let me was hampering the growth of my practise. It pains me as I have been preparing and advising in such a way since 1995. If it's okay if I'm an employee (and can be FCCA), why as a self-employed person can I not do this? So I am FCCA no more and now just a happy MiP of AAT.
Best of luck Youngloch.
It's all rather sad really
Not just the situation described by the opening poster, but the fact that after studying for maybe 3 or 4 years to pass ACCA's exams, that body (of which I am a member) feels that those exams do not give sufficient experience to act for the general public.
Why not just make those exams more useful to 'real world' situations? Members who wish to go into general practice and whom have not been lucky enough to have been employed by an ACCA approved training practice should be given help with whatever deficiencies ACCA thinks they have in their knowledge rather than punished for opportunities that did not exist in the past.
ACCA has lost a lot of perfectly good members due to their out of date view of general practice.
Even more absurd ...
is that you could be ACCA qualified for 5, 10 or 20 years and still be tied by the specific circumstances of the 2 years following your qualification. You would think it would be a money spinner to offer a 'practice' exam to bring people on board.
ICAEW are just as bad
I was going to do the ICAEW pathways scheme to move from ACCA to ACA, but what they required was ridiculous. As a sole trader for over a decade, I didn't know an ACA well enough who could support my application. I had ACA's who I worked with and for, at previous employments, but because they were 10-20 years ago, they didn't count. ICAEW were completely inflexible and my almost 30 years of experience, 25 years of being ACCA, and 10 years of running my own practice counted for zilch.
Sad to say, but the accountancy bodies are going to cause their own extinction if they don't change their ways. ACCA is completely irrelevant to me - I couldn't give a toss about international accounting, or their latest office in Lagos, or Sarbanes or whatever. I joined ICPA for the insurance and CPD, and couldn't be more pleased with their real support for the small practitioner by providing relevant software offers, relevant CPD, relevant magazine, etc.
The only reason I'm staying with ACCA is fear of the future. Who knows whether statutory audits will be re introduced at lower company sizes? Who knows whether the banks' tighter lending criteria will mean they go back to requiring CCAB accountants to give references? Who knows what HMRC criteria will be introduced to control/supervise agents in the future, especially with the proposed "self serve".
I'm certainly not staying with ACCA for any of their supposed "benefits of membership" which are completely irrelevant to the small practitioner.
To the OP, I wouldn't stress yourself about it. If you can get a practising certificate, fair enough, but otherwise, why not do what loads of others do, and just set up a limited company, don't call it "certified accountants", and have it employ you. Then you can keep your ACCA qualification, show the initials behind your name, but just not say that the firm is an ACCA firm. You may have to tweak shareholdings/directorships with your spouse/family to comply with the rules, but you'll end up with the same effect. I know of loads of practices that do it that way to get around the stupid practising certificate rules and they're not being challenged.
At the risk of making myself unpopular
Surely we can understand where the ACCA is coming from here? While I sympathise with the OP's situation and agree that he could be every bit as experienced as he needs to be, you cannot escape from the fact that he has never worked under the appropriate supervision of a regulated firm.
It is a sad situation but I cannot see that the ACCA are being unreasonable although they could perhaps have offered more constructive solutions rather than flat refusals.
ACCA farce
I will be very interested to hear the outcome of this thread. I do not mean to hijack but would like to add my story and encourage others to do so and hope someone senior at the ACCA takes this seriously.
I am an ACCA member (for what it is worth as noted above). I have always worked in industry (10 years) but am keen to start taking on clients on a part time basis with a view to opening a full time practice in 5-10 years time. My employer is not approved and cannot get approved because my supervisor is only an ACA with 20 years experience (never held a practising certificate and no intention to do so!).
Although I work in industry I get fantastic exposure to lots of different work that will help me in practice and have quite a large network to get clients from (I already have offers of private work).
My options seem to be:
Resign from the ACCA and practice unqualified
Resign from the ACCA and move over to AAT (if they will have me!)
Convince another ACCA practice to take my clients on and eventually get my own practising certificate
Why do the ACCA not make this absolutely clear when you sign up as a student that you should be working for an 'approved employer' if you intend to go into practice. Is it simply to not turn off the tap of subs fees?
Why is my non approved employer okay to sign off my membership but not a PCTR?
Why is my non approved employer okay to sign off my membership b
Trying not to sound to harsh here but obviously because they are not in practice. If this was your ulimate career goal you should have researched the rules more carefully.
Why do you think you are qualfied to run your own practice? If I were you I would consider moving to work for a firm of accountants that will provide you the necessary experience and allow you to get your log book signed off.
Fair point Roland but.......
I did not realise when I started my accountancy studies that I would want to go into practice years down the line. I think flexibility is the key as someone suggested earlier why not have a real life practice exam for those who cannot gain the necessary experience at an approved practice. I realise you need more than exam experience to go into practice but there just seems to be no options if you do not fit into the strict criteria.
I think I will approach an ACCA practice I know about me doing the work and giving them a percentage of the fee to check it over. I know he can't be far off retiring anyway so maybe kill two birds as they say!
I feel I am qualified to go into practice because I have the relevant experience for the services I would like to offer (employment taxes, VAT, management accounts, self assessment etc) and also I never give up until I find the right answer (if I don't already know). I am also more than happy to say when I am not the best person to do a particular job and am a real people person hence wanting to offer my services and let clients decide if I am good or not!
I know this rule is probably more aimed at people that do the exams having never worked in accountancy related role but feel there is no flexibility for accountants that work in industry.
Rules as I understand them
If I subscribe to AAT and get a practicing certificate with them I won't be forced to resign from ACCA will I?Yes
Will i still be an ACCA member? No
And with an AAT practicing certificate can I do all the tasks that I can do with an ACCA/ACPA/IFA/ICPA etc practicing certificate? for example act as an agent, and be able to support mortgage applications, and produce/sign off accounts for use of 3rd parties etc??? Yes, though there are some mortgage companies that don't accept them, but these are few. I'm not sure IFA and ICPA are fully accepted, I thought only ACCA, ACA and CIMA were the safe ones.
Wouldn't it be better to join ACPA or ICPA which are pretty reputable proffessional certified accountant bodies and gain a practicing certificate with them rather than AAT? Not necessarily, AAT is reputable and professional.
But if I'm granted a practicing certificate from them do I need to resign from my ACCA membership? Yes as otherwise you would be practising outside their rules i.e. no ACCA PC.
IIf an IFA/ACPA/ICPA accountant is a sole trader in his own practice for say 20 years, and then decides to do ACCA exams and becomes an ACCA member. Will he have to give up his practice just because he doesnt hold an ACCA practicing certificate? Yes. Nice, isn't it.
And that's why I never went on to become chartered. I'm not selling my business and getting a job.
ACCA Approved Employer
I would just clarify that you don't have to be ACCA yourself to be an ACCA Approved Employer. We are a Chartered Accountants (ICAEW) practice. Like many small practices, we could never get our trainees through the all-or-nothing ICAEW exams, so we gave up training students to become ACAs and switched to the less demanding pick-and-mix ACCA exam structure. We have now been an ACCA Approved Employer for many years and all our trainees have become ACCAs.
A few years ago, the ICAEW came back to us and asked us to resume being an ICAEW training office now that they had adopted the pick-and-mix exam structure, but we declined as they had made it so difficult for small practices to train ACAs in the past.
It rather saddens me not to be churning out ACAs to follow in our footsteps, but if you are looking for ACCA Approved Employers, do not ignore ICAEW practices.
similar situation & met with committee yesterday !!
Hi Youngloch
I too am in a similar but not identical situation and met with the committee yesterday. Although my outcome was positive I still feel there are many hoops I must jump when the situation is not of my making.
I would be very interested to hear your comments regarding your hearing and also offer advice if nessecary if your have not attended yet.
So if you have questions like I do fire away.
looking for outsourced work from acca approved employer
I am ACCA qualified and have lot of experience preparing final accounts for company/partnership and sole trader. As to get practicing certificate, I need to show ACCA three year of experience with approved employer but one way to do that is to get an outsourced work from that employer then you don't need to be employee. I am willing to do outsource work at no cost in order to achieve this requirement. If someone is interested please email me at [email protected] and I provide my updated details.