Accountant stating ACCA after their name but not on list of members on ACCA website

Accountant stating ACCA after their name but...

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We were recently told by one of our small limited company clients that they were going to ask a different firm of accountants to act for them.  We've now received a professional clearance letter from the new accountants.  It's a limited company and the letter has been signed by an individual (a director of the company) stating ACCA after their name.

I've searched the list of members on the ACCA website but can't find the individual referred to above.  I've also searched the list of businesses on the ACCA website but can't find the company that this individual works for.

As far as I'm aware there's absolutely no animosity between us and our ex-client and we parted on what I believe to be good terms so I'm a little loathe to start a dialogue with them that implies that they may be going to an accountant that doesn't have the professional qualifications that they are saying they have, especially when I don't have any specific proof.

We had a similar experience several years ago where a client went to a new accountant who was holding out to be suitably qualified - it turned out that the accountant they went to was an unqualified individual that was working on a sub contract basis with a firm of accountants that did hold the relevant professional qualifications.   

My dilemma is do we just let bygones be bygones and get on with things or do we take this up with the Institute and even mention to our ex-client that their new accountants aren't what they say they are?

Replies (67)

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By bernard michael bayly
13th May 2011 11:13

ACCA?

I recently checked an accountancy company,which described itself as Certified Accountants by calling the Institute of Chartered Certified Accountants. On checking they could not find the firm as members and when asked what they would do about it the response was "Nothing" So don't expect msuch of a reaction

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By jimwatson
13th May 2011 11:23

Report them...

As an ACCA I am appalled at this - the Association should take strong measures to protect their brand. However, there is nothing they can do about unqualifieds calling themselves accountants since that particular term is not "protected".

I would also let your departing client know this once you have established that they are not a bona fide ACCA firm...it really helps to know the sort of people that you are dealing with. They might even appreciate the honesty...

 

 

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By frustratedwithhmrc
13th May 2011 11:35

I would strongly advise you not to do this...

Although it seems likely that they may be presenting themselves as ACCA members, when they aren't in reality, since you don't ACTUALLY know this for certain, I would advise against making those allegations.

Don't want to get done for slander do we (or libel if written down).

There may be a good reason why they are not on the ACCA list of members.

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By mark589
13th May 2011 13:10

If not ACCA report them

If they are not on the ACCA list of members then surely they are not memebers?

I would contact ACCA in writing to get proof and pass it on to your previous client.

I know ICAEW take an interest in firms claiming to be "Chartered Accountants" when their not.

This is the problem with accountancy. Any idiot can call themselves an accountant.

 

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By Ding Dong
13th May 2011 13:32

Contact ACCA and say...

.... a client of mine is leaving, no bad feelings but as a matter of professionalism on my part I alwats ensure the firm they are going are reputable and who they claim to be. They are going to XYZ Ltd who claim to be ACCA but are not listed on your website nor is Mr/Mrs X who is using the ACCA letters after his/her name. Can you please advise me if it is appropriate for me to pass the requested information across....

and attach a copy of the letterhead etc so the ACCA can see.

And follow the letter up with a phone call - or maybe even phone first ??

That way you are doing nothing wrong except looking over-professional.

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 13:44

Defamation

This is the problem with accountancy. Any idiot can call themselves an accountant.

 

Posted by mark589 on Fri, 13/05/2011 - 13:10 

 

Unfortunately many of those idiots are qualified.

Don't join the ranks of idiots by throwing around unfounded accusations, defamation claims can be expensive. Simply draw the institutes attention to the letter you have seen and the fact that you cannot locate them on the website, and leave it at that.  I have seen cases of someone called "Peter Paul Smith", registered with the institute as Peter Smith, but trading as Paul Smith - this could be a simple as that.

Whatever you do, DO NOT make any comment to the client (ex) as that could consititute defamation. If he wants to use an unqualified accountant then that is his business, not yours, and its up to him to check out the qualifications, abilities, of whoever he choses to use, it's not your concern.

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By mumpin
13th May 2011 13:53

ACCA just don't care

I have a firm near me.

Their website  says they are ICB (Bookkeepers Trade Body) but the Director signs himself as ACCA.

He's not on the register of members and the firm doesn't have an ACCA Prac Cert.

I phoned the ACCA and there was complete disinterest. They said they wouldn't even discuss it with me because of the Data Protection Act.

I effortlessly slipped into screaming lunatic mode and insisted on being passed up the food chain. "You are failing in your duty to protect the public, etc etc.".  Finally they took my complaint seriously. After a couple of months the ACCA wrote to me and said that the individual concerned has agreed not to describe himself as ACCA in future and to amend his website.

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By frustratedwithhmrc
13th May 2011 14:12

Isn't this all you can expect really?

After a couple of months the ACCA wrote to me and said that the individual concerned has agreed not to describe himself as ACCA in future and to amend his website.

I understand you must be a bit miffed as it seems as though only the minimum was done to protect the ACCA standard. In years gone by he'd have been done for Obtaining a Pecuniary Advantage by Deception (Section 16 Theft Act 1968).

<RANT>However, magistrates nowadays seem to have their wrists tied to their ankles by all the "everyone's a victim" mentality. Don't even get me started on the CPS - Dullards, the lot of them.</RANT>

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By mark589
13th May 2011 14:35

Why not?

This person may well be qualified. But if he's claiming to be ACCA and you have his address (i.e his firm should be registered with the ACCA at that address) then ACCA should easily be able to advise you if the firm is registered with them.

If not then you have every right to question them and advise your client.

Your not accusing them of anything other than lying about their qualifications.

Qualified accountants spend a lot of time and effort bothering to get qualified.

Then anyone can come along and claim they are an accountant on a par with someone who is qualified?

 

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 14:48

I advise caution - but if you wish to ignore good advice thats u

This person may well be qualified. But if he's claiming to be ACCA and you have his address (i.e his firm should be registered with the ACCA at that address) then ACCA should easily be able to advise you if the firm is registered with them.

Do they always have their records up to date?  He could easily be registered at another address - you dont have to register all addresses. 

 

If not then you have every right to question them and advise your client.

And if you are shown to be wrong he has every right to sue you for defamation.

 

Your not accusing them of anything other than lying about their qualifications.

Actually if you are wrong you are defaming them, and even if you are right that is not always a complete defence to defamation (contrary to common belief). If you can be shown (on the balance of probabilities) to have acted maliciously, then the truthfulness of your statement is irrelevent.

 

Qualified accountants spend a lot of time and effort bothering to get qualified.

Then anyone can come along and claim they are an accountant on a par with someone who is qualified?

I hate to bust your bubble, but there are a lot of unqalifieds out there who are far better than any qualified. We employ some, including one with no qualifications at all, but, who is recognised as a world leading authority on taxation.  You probably studied using books he wrote.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Replying to brownbuchanan:
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By deg2yq
06th Jun 2012 02:09

That's a stupid remark

 So why bother to get qualified?!

It was damned difficult and  time consuming!!

I know some unqualifieds with high position and a extremely good in industry and some in practise but why bother to get qualified at all, if what I worked for so hard with so much pride is not protected.

With idiots like you around the ACCA might as well pack u aan no exist.

I am a earning good money because I show how much it means tome to be a qualified practising member.

You must be an ACA to have such a carefree attitude about my accountancy body

 

 

 

 

 

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By andypartridge
13th May 2011 15:17

Why bother

Did you mention why the client had left you? It escaped me if you did. Isn't that the crux of the matter? Any mention of this to your ex-client is going to sound like sour grapes. Let's face it, if ACCA has history of not being bothered, why waste your time and energy. It will only be a source of frustration. As for C_D's comment, 'you probably studied using books he wrote', I find that improbable and mere rhetoric. However, if he would care to name him we will be able to tell him for sure. . . . . [removed by mod]. -- Kind regards Andy

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By frustratedwithhmrc
13th May 2011 15:33

Why do clients go elsewhere...

The two most common reasons are cheaper and more flexible (i.e. will put things through the books that others won't). Both of these reasons tend to lead clients into "unchartered" territory (bit of humour there).

As C_D says, this doesn't mean that the service would be worse, generally, it's just a different offering.

However, someone who has been putting themself forward as an ACCA and they aren't, may have a cheaper offerring (as they haven't had the expense of passing the ACCA Certification), but they are unlikely to provide the appropriate level of service.

Not a level playing field in my book.

 

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 15:33

.

As for C_D's comment, 'you probably studied using books he wrote', I find that improbable and merely rhetoric. However, if he would care to name him we will be able to tell him for sure. . . . . [removed by mod].
--
Kind regards
Andy

 

Posted by andypartridge on Fri, 13/05/2011 - 15:17

 

Oh dear - it's Friday and [removed by mod].

I do not have to justify my statements of FACT [removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation]

[removed by mod - inflammatory and unnecessary]

 

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David Winch
By David Winch
13th May 2011 15:51

On a legal point

If a person dishonestly misdescribes himself for the purpose of obtaining fees which he might not otherwise get then he could be committing an offence of fraud by false representation under sections 1 & 2 Fraud Act 2006.

Of course if they are successful in obtaining fees fraudulently they will also commit a money laundering offence (suspicion of which would be reportable to SOCA).

David

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By andypartridge
13th May 2011 16:03

@ C_D

[removed by mod - inflammatory] You are right, you do not have to prove anything (to anyone). However, if you will insist on throwing out comments that sound offbeat you should not be surprised, if you want people to believe them, that you might be asked to justify them. [removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation] To the OP, irrespective of the legal position, how much time do you want to expend helping a client that isn't yours any longer? I would suggest that your time could be better spent. -- Kind regards Andy

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 16:21

.

[entire comment removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation]

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
13th May 2011 16:49

What I would do

I would just tattle to the ACCA, preferably annonymously, and leave it at that.  You aren't the ACCA enforcement officer and, though I personally find it frustrating that someone can get away with claiming a qualification they don't deserve, it isn't for you to see that justice is done.

Tell the ACCA, then it is up to them and you can rest easy knowing you did the right thing.  Minimal effort involved.

Oh, and post on here and tell us what they say, when I was doing my ACCA exams they made out that claiming to be ACCA when you weren't was a capital offence!

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
13th May 2011 16:54

Whether QBEs are as good or better is irrelevant.

Anyone being able to call themselves an accountant means just that. Anyone can do it. Whilst a qualification will not prove that someone is good at that job, it at least proves they have undertaken study in that particular profession. Without a qualification there is no way of knowing if you are dealing with someone well qualified for experience or some goofball that thought the job is just adding up so how hard could it be.

[removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation, also continuing off-topic dispute]

I do agree that doing anything other than reporting the matter to the ACCA would be inadvisable. Essentially there is nothing to gain by doing so. At best, there is a risk of it sounding like sour grapes, ruining the chance of the client choosing to come back later.  if the new accountant does a poor job, then being able to say "I told you so" is just likely to drive them somewhere else. Maintain good relations and you could see them again one day.

 

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By geoffmw
13th May 2011 17:15

Fortunately

ACCA is easier to check than CA or FCA.

I had an suspicious instance some time ago that someone may not have had a practicing certificate.

It turned out he was a qualified South African Cahartered Accountant but practicing in the UK.

How does hedeal with Practice Assurance and is he registered with HMRC?

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 18:33

.

[entire comment removed by mod - continuation of personal dispute and off topic to OP]

 

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By WhichTyler
13th May 2011 18:46

Attention to detail

I think Andy's point was that the claims that one of your staff 'is recognised as a world leading authority on taxation' and  'You probably studied using books he wrote' sounds like an exaggeration, and without evidence to support it, readers are free to give it as much or as little weight as they see fit.

 

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 18:54

Boring

I think Andy's point was that the claims that one of your staff 'is recognised as a world leading authority on taxation' and 'You probably studied using books he wrote' sounds like an exaggeration, and without evidence to support it, readers are free to give it as much or as little weight as they see fit.

 

 

Posted by WhichTyler on Fri, 13/05/2011 - 18:46

 [removed by mod - personal dispute/attack and not relevant to the OP]

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By WhichTyler
13th May 2011 19:08

Details

[removed by mod - personal dispute, off topic and not relevant to the OP]

On topic: I find the ACCA website relatively easy to use, but agree with Andy that it's probably best to build a bridge and 'get over it', as the young folk say.

Have a nice weekend, one and all

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 19:12

Whichtyler

[entire comment removed by mod - personal dispute, inflammatory and off topic]

 

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By Ding Dong
13th May 2011 20:06

In the words of the immortal scouser......

"CALM DOWN, CALM DOWN" - being said by me wearing a shellsuit, a curly wig and a nice curly 'tache.

In the interests of the original post can all those criticising CD and CD youself please not turn this post into personal attacks. I am not concerned who started it - or who took offence first (and I apologise to all the readers in Liverpool for my sterotyping at the start of my post!) but let's not bother on a friday.

We don't need to get personal in these posts, If people post something derrogatory can teh moderators remove OR remove that persons access rights for 24 hours (a bit like a red card).

If we disagree on a technical point then by all means let's aregue about it but nothing personal.

This is not aimed at as an attack on any of those arguing merely a cry for help to stop some very good and interesting posts being taken over by personal arguments.

I'm off for a can of beer or two and a curry, and when I check back in tomorrowe I want to see that all those fighting have metaphorically shaken hands and are enjoying a cyber pint together this evening. !

Happy Days......

 

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By User deleted
13th May 2011 20:54

Agree with Ding Dong

I agree with Ding Dong. And I'm now in the mood for a curry despite sitting here with duck pancakes! No guesses what takeaway I'll be having over the weekend :)

And in response to the original question I'd give up. The ACCA don't care about doing anything except increasing our subs each year so you'll be wasting your time. It may be that the other accountant is ex-ACCA and has given up paying but still uses their letters (wrongly but I could understand why)?

Have a good weekend one and all :)

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By cymraeg_draig
13th May 2011 22:32

.

CALM DOWN, CALM DOWN" - being said by me wearing a shellsuit, a curly wig and a nice curly 'tache.

In the interests of the original post can all those criticising CD and CD youself please not turn this post into personal attacks. I am not concerned who started it - or who took offence first (and I apologise to all the readers in Liverpool for my sterotyping at the start of my post!) but let's not bother on a friday

 

 

Posted by Ding Dong on Fri, 13/05/2011 - 20:06

 

Aplogies to anyone upset by my response, [removed by mod - accusations against other members]

[removed by mod - inflammatory and not relevant to OP]

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
14th May 2011 08:55

The major claim

The "major claim" is not that widely recognised tax experts work in practice. Whilst some may make their money from books and lectures I should imagine quite a few prefer to work at the coalface by putting their knowledge into practice with clients. I actually work closely with a widely recognised tax expert in such a capacity myself. Out of respect to him I am also not going to name him and I'm perfectly prepared for others to doubt this claim as a result.

The "major claim" is that a widely recognised expert, who also achieved this status completely from experience in the field, works at your firm. I consider it perfectly possible that such an individual exists. Maybe they do work at your firm. Maybe they don't. Maybe you have an accomplished tax person at your firm but are over-exaggerating their abilities. After all, I can truthfully say I am an internationally published poet, but the fame that could be inferred from such a statement is a far step from reality. Without being able to verify the truth for myself I reserve the right to doubt that such a major figure exists at your firm. [removed by mod - potentially inflammatory] I'm just saying I personally have trouble believing it.

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By cymraeg_draig
14th May 2011 09:21

.

[removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation]

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By Bob Harper
14th May 2011 10:58

Questions

[entire comment removed by mod - inflammatory and off topic]

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By cymraeg_draig
14th May 2011 11:20

Bob

[entire comment removed by mod - response to above, personal dispute, off topic]

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By User deleted
14th May 2011 11:22

Wouldn't it be easier...

and stop all this quickly if CD you just named your tax guru? Then we could either say 'oh yes, [***] me I recognise that name' or 'nope, but then my personal library only stretches to Enid Blyton' or whatever. End of. I'll admit I'd be interested to know so that I could check my books and work out if I had a wealth of tax knowledge on the shelf (I have one shelf separate to Enid Blyton, just to look professional!). I might actually read the books then :) Go on CD, you know we're all itching to know!

 

(I'd also be interested to read some poetry by A-Web's internationally-published poet - but only if it rhymes! I don't often 'get' the unrhyming stuff, bit too deep for me. But I do believe you that you're published, very impressive!!)

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By cymraeg_draig
14th May 2011 14:48

.
Wouldn't it be easier...

and stop all this quickly if CD you just named your tax guru? Then we could either say 'oh yes, [***] me I recognise that name' or 'nope, but then my personal library only stretches to Enid Blyton' or whatever.

 

Posted by Flash Gordon on Sat, 14/05/2011 - 11:22

[removed by mod - threatening in tone and inflammatory]

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By lisler
14th May 2011 21:05

[removed by mod]

[entire comment removed by mod - not relevant to OP]

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By cymraeg_draig
14th May 2011 23:04

.

[entire comment removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation, not relevant to OP]

 

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
16th May 2011 10:36

Flash

You tickle me in just the right way with your comments.

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By User deleted
16th May 2011 10:41

Constantly Confused

:) Thank you. Though I never realised ducks were ticklish! Every day there is something new to learn...

 

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By Bob Harper
16th May 2011 11:10

CD

[entire comment removed by mod - inflammatory and to reflect earlier moderation]

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
16th May 2011 11:25

Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

And for the record, we ducks aren't actually ticklish in general, what with being covered in feathers.  Despite that my comment stands.

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By cymraeg_draig
16th May 2011 11:29

.

[entire comment removed by mod - to reflect earlier moderation]

 

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By Steve Holloway
16th May 2011 11:46

So Flash ... which Enid books do you have?

 I have the entire adventure series and love to kick off a holiday reading one or another. Something about the caves, rugs and picnics which pushes the buttons just as it did when I was seven!

 

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By Becky Midgley
16th May 2011 14:40

This thread has been moderated

This thread has been heavily moderated in line with our new provisional moderation guidance which will be published later this week.

If the discussion does not get back and stay on topic then the thread will be closed which is absolutely unacceptable for the original poster (OP).  If this happens, there will be consequences for the members involved.

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By thisistibi
16th May 2011 15:07

Moderation

Just to say that I think the new moderation style is much improved... being able to see the reason for moderation rather than have entire posts removed.  Good step forward.

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By User deleted
16th May 2011 15:14

I may get slapped....

but am I allowed to answer an off-topic question about Enid Blyton if I promise to be polite, quick, thoroughly respectful and allude briefly to the original post at the end?!

Enid Blyton - Famous Five (original series and some of the newer series but still to my knowledge by Enid), Secret Seven (but they only take 5 seconds to read these days), Malory Towers, St Clares, the Secret Series (Secret Island, Secret of Spiggy Holes etc), Adventure Series (Island of Adventure etc), the Naughiest Girl series and I've just (sad I admit) bought the Adventurous Four ones which I don't think I've ever read before. There's something about going back into your childhood but I'm sure I get far more excited now when they describe the amount of food that they pack up for their travels than I ever did before!!

Anyway back to the original post - I'd follow other advice and definitely not mention your suspicions to the (ex) client - it won't do any good and will just make you look petty. It's highly annoying I know when we have to jump through hoops as members when they won't do a single thing in return but alas them's the breaks. Besides as I may have suggested earlier in the thread they might just be a p'd-off-with-forking-out-a-fortune-ex-ACCA-member who's decided to keep their letters and their money. Who can blame them?!

ps In case you're feeling like your morning has been wasted Becky, have a glass-half-full moment - because you had to post to tell us off, we get the pleasure of seeing your picture in Any Answers again! I think that's a definite positive :)

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
16th May 2011 15:22

Flash

Ahhh, Saviour of- Ok I'll stop.

I had a similar thought when I heard the topic was going into the shop for mods, I wondered if our discussion of ducks would survive.

Glad to see our glorious Queen/Empress has a sense of humour :)

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By Ding Dong
16th May 2011 22:04

@ Constantly Confused

very disapointed...............

Started reading your post that started "saviour of the universe...."

and started singing the remainder of the line ......"he saved everyone of us......" and you cut your post short.

Shame on you! :-)

If you will recite the lyrics of the enigmatic Freddie Mercury - at least have the decency to go the whole hog !!.....

all together now....."mama just killed a man, put a gun aginst his head, pulled the trigger now he's dead........ I see a little silhouetto of a man, Scaramouche, Scaramouche, will you do the Fandango."
 

Happy days !!

Tally ho

 

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By User deleted
17th May 2011 07:39

Flash - Saviour of the X Factor

For when you want to sing my shortened victory song:

He's for everyone of us
Stand for everyone of us
He'll save with a mighty hand
Every man every woman every child
He's the mighty flash

No-one but the pure in heart may find the golden grail
Oh oh - oh oh ....... Flash

And when you're in the mood to 'supersize' the lyrics....

Flash a-ah
Savior of the Universe
Flash a-ah
He'll save every one of us

(Seemingly there is no reason for these extraordinary intergalactical upsets)
(Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha)
(What's happening Flash?)
(Only Doctor Hans Zarkhov, formerly at NASA, has provided any explanation)

Flash a-ah
He's a miracle

(This morning's unprecedented solar eclipse is no cause for alarm)

Flash a-ah
King of the impossible

He's for every one of us
Stand for every one of us
He save with a mighty hand
Every man, every woman
Every child, with a mighty
Flash

(General Kala, Flash Gordon approaching.)
(What do you mean Flash Gordon approaching? Open fire! All weapons! Dispatch war rocket Ajax to bring back his body)

Flash a-ah
(Gordon's alive!)

Flash a-ah
He'll save every one of us

Just a man
With a man's courage
You know he's
Nothing but a man
And he can never fail
No one but the pure at heart
May find the Golden Grail
...Oh..Oh........Oh..Oh ................

(Flash, Flash, I love you, but we only have fourteen hours to save the Earth!)
Flash
 

(This was the only time I've ever had more than one woman at a time throwing herself at me!)

On an accounting theme - I wonder what HMRC would say to allowing the costs of advertising on a rocket cycle?

Now all sing together.........

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David Winch
By David Winch
17th May 2011 08:51

What can I say?

I've been dazed and confused for so long it's not true!

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By ShirleyM
17th May 2011 09:28

Confusion reigns?

David ... you may be confused ... but you probably had a giggle too :)

Flash ... your posts usually have me smiling, or get outright laughter from me, and your joviality does lighten the 'atmosphere' at times.

Long may you reign as saviour of the universe :)

PS. Freddie was my hero too

 

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