Carlsberg don't do accountancy practices

Carlsberg don't do accountancy practices

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By orchardacc
12th Aug 2010 15:11

NICE

Cold, nice and refreshing. mmmmm I prefer Stella though!!! Now i want one!!!!

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By Becky Midgley
12th Aug 2010 15:31

Oh you guys...

Now I want a beer too!

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By Jason Dormer
12th Aug 2010 15:40

Patience!

As I said to my little girl only this morning when she wouldn't tidy her room - Work first, then play!  Though to be honest she took absolutely no notice of me.

It's nearly Friday - the nice, cool, ice cold, refreshing beer will come :)

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By cymraeg_draig
12th Aug 2010 15:41

Perfect ????

 

A direct line to HMRC which is always answered on the first ring by exactly the person you need to sort things.Clients who always present balanced accurate recordsClients who always pay on timeStaff who NEVER have problems or sick daysA postman who only delivers cheques and never delivers stupid letters from HMRCA computer system that never has glitches

The trouble is - life would be boring.

 

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the sea otter
By memyself-eye
12th Aug 2010 15:59

Boring? I should Co-Co

Trouble is Carlsberg is not beer it's lager - an inferior product altogether. 

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By Jason Dormer
12th Aug 2010 16:13

Perfect Practice

The ones that you list c_d relate to a perfect world rather than a perfect practice.

I'm wondering what the perfect practice would be and do, some suggestions:

 - Always answer on first ring;

 - Guarantee all work;

 - All staff well presented, welcoming and friendly;

 - Work carried out to highest standard at all times;

 - Treat all clients the same;

 - Talk in plain English;

 - Meet their differing customers differing expecations - every time;

 - Be a pleasure to work with;

 - Refer their clients to each other;

 - Benefit the local community

 - Do some good cause work

 - Be good employers

 - Continuous improvement at all times

 - Make a difference

 

Etc.

 

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By cymraeg_draig
12th Aug 2010 18:02

Variety

I was looking from the inside out, rather than the outside in (if that makes sense).

Taking your view, I suggest that "the perfect practice" would be a very different thing for every client.  Some clients simply want to keep the taxmans hands off as much as possible, others want whatever it takes to keep the bank manager happy, others want to expand their business from a corner shop to Tescos in record time.

In other words there can be no such thing as a perfect practice, but if you're prepared to be flexible in your approach and meet each clients particular needs, then you're not too far away.

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By Chris Smail
12th Aug 2010 18:51

Oh dear me

What on earth do you mean by

 - Guarantee all work;

 - Work carried out to highest standard at all times;

 - Treat all clients the same;

  - Meet their differing customers differing expecations - every time;

 - Continuous improvement at all times

 - Make a difference

 Sound pretty unquantifiable to me

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By Jason Dormer
12th Aug 2010 22:09

Oh dear oh dear

What on earth do you mean by what on earth do I mean?

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
13th Aug 2010 09:22

.

I agree with the dragon.

Not often I say that!

Jason I belive the "o dear" is to due to the fact you appear to be spewing management clap trap. 

Or to put it another way, fancy words that tend to get left on the meeting room table.

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By Jason Dormer
13th Aug 2010 10:57

How so?

@ireally

I am not 'spewing' anything, least of all 'claptrap'.

I am using the current quiet period to look outside in to see how a perfect practice would operate -v- how we are operating and was looking for some opinions from my AWEB peers.

Why do you consider it claptrap? Is it easy to dismiss it as such rather than have an honest assessment?  How does 'treating all clients the same' equate in claptrap?  We all know that the sole trader with his carrier bag is treated as a nuisance by some firms who fawn at the feet of the high flyers.  How does 'Do some good cause work' eqaute in claptrap?  How many fims do good cause work? How many firms make use of their assets to make a difference to children in the community with learning difficulties?  We don't.

 

@ Chirs - Everything in life is quantifiable - even if it wasn't is that sufficient reason not to try?

 

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By bigdave1971
13th Aug 2010 11:03

If Carlsberg did an accountancy practice ...

Let's have a go ...

You'd walk into the state of the art modern building, greeted by a smiling cloakroom attendant who took your coat and led you to the comfy settees with a large plasma tv screen in front of you showing a funny film on how the tax inspectors were shown the door!

A receptionist (a model) arrives to take your books directly to a partner while another model (and a professional masseur) takes you off to a room to give you an all over body massage.

Once that's done the receptionist returns with a drink of your choice and the car park attendant returns your keys after having valeted your car for you.

After an hour you are lead to a conference room when you meet the team who prepared your accounts and the accounts themselves are presented to you by a partner in conjunction with Peter Snow (with all the graphics he loves) and the tax return is presented to you for signing showing a very reasonable tax liability due.

A bill is presented to you at the door amounting to £1,000 which is waived as a thank you for referring 28 clients to the firm in this year alone.

You leave in your newly valeted car with the entire team waving you a fond farewell at the door.

 

 

... ok that's my attempt. I'm not feeling great this morning so I did the above to delay doing any meaningful work for a while!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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By cymraeg_draig
13th Aug 2010 11:15

bigdave1971

I have to ask .............how did you know how we operate :)

 

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By bigdave1971
13th Aug 2010 11:19

.

I just assumed that's how we all operated!!

Dave

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By Jason Dormer
13th Aug 2010 11:23

Big Dave

Only one thing - wouldn't it be a tax repayment rather than liability? :)

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By bigdave1971
13th Aug 2010 11:31

.

Yes but lets not get totally unrealistic!!

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
13th Aug 2010 13:28

Impossible Practice

A few conflicting aims there Jason

 - Work carried out to highest standard at all times;

 - Continuous improvement at all times

If they are already carrying out work to the highest standard, how can they continuously improve? If they are at the top already then there's nowhere to go.

 - Treat all clients the same;

 - Meet their differing customers differing expecations - every time;

If you're meeting their different expectations, you can't be treating them the same. All clients would have to have the same expectations to allow uniform treatment.

I also find this a weird aim that is used far too often by companies

 - Make a difference

If I set all my clients on fire then that would definitely "make a difference". I thnk it might make repeat custom and getting referrals a bit tricky though. :-D

Apparently Carlsberg do, do accountants though (or at least they have an Accounting Service Centre)

 

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By cymraeg_draig
13th Aug 2010 22:33

Its a good advertising slogan, but......................

Carlsberg don't do accountancy practices - let's be honest, they don't even do a decent lager.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
14th Aug 2010 09:23

Maybe it's a trick, not a slogan.

Carlsberg. If we did all this other stuff we'd be brilliant. Unfortunately we chose to do the one thing we're a bit rubbish at.

That said, as a confirmed ale drinker, I'm struggling with the concept of a "decent lager".

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By Jason Dormer
14th Aug 2010 11:34

I disagree

I don't think the aims conflict.

 - Work carried out to the highest standard at all times

 - Contininuous improvement at all times

"If they are at the top already then there is nowhere to go"  you say?   Yes there is - down! It's one thing getting to the top it's another challenge entirely to stay there.

What is of highest standard today isn't neccessarily highest standard tomorrow - especially in the areas of taxation and technology.  Rest on your laurels and you will soon pay the price.

 - Treat all clients the same

 - Meet their different expectations - every time

"If your'e meeting their different exepectations, you can't be treating them the same"   You miss my point, I mean that all clients are treated with the same courtesy whether they pay £500 or £10,000.00 per year.  They are given the same response times, the same welcome, their calls taken on par, their problems listened to and acted on, their expectations met however they differ, and so on and so on.

As for making a difference, it may be overused but it's not all about profit, wouldn't it be nice to sit back at the end of your career and know that you have given helped businesses succeed, created employment, provided opportunities, done some work in the community, and generally made a few people's lives better along the way?  I don't find that weird personally.

 

 

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By cymraeg_draig
15th Aug 2010 10:12

Jason is right

 

As for making a difference, it may be overused but it's not all about profit, wouldn't it be nice to sit back at the end of your career and know that you have given helped businesses succeed, created employment, provided opportunities, done some work in the community, and generally made a few people's lives better along the way?  I don't find that weird personally.

Posted by Jason Dormer on Sat, 14/08/2010 - 11:34

 

 

I agree Jason - what you're talking about is job satisfaction.  Unfortunately in our greedy self centred society for some achievement is measured only in £'s in the bank and the trinkets & baubles it buys.  Short sightedness seems to be a disease that many suffer from nowdays.  They charge top rate to clients who simply can't afford it, and end up losing the client and having to spend time & money finding another client to fill that hole in the client base.

Putting something back into the community is something that many of the big firms are now starting to become involved in, and we have been doing it for nearly 40 years - long before the so called "big" firms even considered it.  That's something that I am proud of.

There are three ways in which this can be done. 

Firstly there is the involvement that also acts as advertising for your firm. Such things as sponsoring a local football team with its attendant advertising on shirts etc.  If your local village or suburb has an under 14 or under 12 football league, sponsor the local team, supply them with shirts "just like the professionals" with the sponsors name (you) right across the front - the kids love it.  When they have a "big" game, say in the local cup competition, get stuck in with your printer and print up a hundred programmes.  You'd be amazed how many self employed plumbers or whatever have kids playing for the other side but want a new accountant.  Every time we have done this we can virtually guarantee getting one new client from 100 or so programmes.

The second type of involvement is the voluntary work.  We close the office for a week (usually either in July or August) and in conjunction with a local charity supply free labour (and materials) to work in the community.  We tidy gardens for the elderly who perhaps cant do it themselves, we decorate for them (two painter clients lend us tressles etc), and we have cleared the grounds for a local animal sanctuary.  This also can generate leads via newspaper articles, spots on local TV etc. and its also a far better way of "staff bonding" than any of the expensive and fairly useless courses that salesmen con people into paying for.

Thirdly, there is pure charity work.  This will not generate work, it will cost you money, and it's good for your self esteem but not for your business. It is vital that you believe in and are passionate about this kind of work, or you simply wont do it. We are involved in the rehabilitation of offenders scheme, and, we also work with the homeless and with workers in the sex industry who are often themselves victims. Not the most glamorous of causes unlike cuddly animals or working with kids, but, its something where we can and have made a difference. Many staff have become involved in this and we do regular "soup runs", distribute blankets, liase with shelters, and have set up a "drop-in centre" where abused women can get help, couselling, and if they want to (and it must always be their decision), can be referred to our own hostel where they can live, get help with detox where needed (and it usually is), get expert medical attention (we have a expert consultant on STD's who gives his time for free), get expert help on claiming benefits while they are trained and found proper jobs and a home of their own, and receive ongoing support, often for years. We are never judgemental, most have suffered some form of abuse and trauma, and they need understanding and above all friendship and support.  

What this has cost us over the years I dread to think, over the years I've been threatened at knife point and once at gun point by pimps, several times I've been physically attacked (thank God for army training), once I was arrested (and cleared) after a pimp attacked me and after I defended myself the clown accused me of assault, but, as Jason said, I have the comfort of knowing that I have "made a few people's lives better along the way" and I dont know how you put a value on that.

 

 

 

 

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
15th Aug 2010 14:16

The problem is vagueness then

Jason, we appear to actually agree in principle. The problem with your original assertions is that they are too generic to convey the ideas you're now putting in detail.

I understand about the need to maintain standards but that's not "continuous improvement". That's maintaining the highest standard. If we fail to keep up CPD then the chances are we will end up servicing our clients less well. But if all work is done to the highest standard then that maintenance is implied (you say the only way from the top is down, but if you go down, you're no longer doing all work to the highest standard and thus fail the highest standard assetion).

As for treating all clients the same, I agree about courtesy and response times, etc. However, different expectations and different clients will require different treatment. Your client that thinks a balance sheet is instructions to a high-wire walker will require more attention than your client who is an ex-accountant. The explanations you'll supply to the former will be couched in more lay-man terms whereas you know the ex-accountant doesn't need that level of simplification for most things. This is treating the clients differently, but in a way that is relevant to the knowledge and needs of the client.

As for "make a difference", my problem stems mainly from two things. Firstly, the assumption, that "difference" automatically equates to "good" As I've already pointed out, you can make a difference that is very bad for someone. Secondly, and rather more importanty, the assumption that a successful business knows what's best for other people. Some businesses decide to set up their own charitable arms, working in a field entirely outside their business experience, and end up doing more harm than good. This is why I applaud CD's approach, which seems to be to work with people with the appropriate knowledge (both the local charity and experts where required) and committing long-term. He's not going out, messing about with people's lives, and then abandoning it when they don't show what the volunteer considers proper gratitude (as some people do)

You may say that I'm wilfully misinterpreting the list of qualities you gave. To that I would answer that they are so vaguely couched as to be wide open to misinterpretation. Far from a description of a "perfect practice" they sound more like a list of woolly aspirations any company could put on a mission statement and then forget. The devil is in the detail.

As an afterthought, I would point out that Carlsberg's "best in the world" adverts are highly tongue-in-cheek. Thus bigdave1971's over the top answer fits the query as stated much better than yours.

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By cymraeg_draig
15th Aug 2010 14:58

stepurhan

Your client that thinks a balance sheet is instructions to a high-wire walker will require more attention than your client who is an ex-accountant.

Posted by stepurhan on Sun, 15/08/2010 - 14:16

 

Actually I don't necessarily agree with that assessment.  The client with some knowledge will usually be much more of a pain questioning everything and making daft suggestions, whereas the client with no knowledge usually takes your word for everything and simply accepts it.   

 

 

____________________________________________________

Some businesses decide to set up their own charitable arms, working in a field entirely outside their business experience, and end up doing more harm than good.

Posted by stepurhan on Sun, 15/08/2010 - 14:16

 

I think this depends on the type of involvement with the local community.  Sponsoring the local football team doesnt really require long term commitment or "mess with peoples lives". 

Donating a week of your time to clear pensioners gardens or decorate requires a short term commitment - a week.  You are committed to finish the project you're on, but that is the extent of the commitment.

Working long term is however, I agree, a different matter and that is why I said it must be something you are passionate about doing, and would probably be involved in even if you were an employee doing so in your spare time.

 

I recall one incident from many years ago when I was asked to judge a childrens pet show for the local scout group. After working my way through endless cats, dogs, rabbits, etc and getting scratched, bitten, growled at (and that was just by the owners :)  ) I had whittled it down to the final 6. Whilst waiting to make my final decision I was talking to a friend who pointed out a young girl (about 9 or 10 years old). She had a sweet little dog which was obviously part Shetland Sheep Dog and part Heinz 57.  Earlier I had shown her how to remove the knots behind the dogs ears, and she had obviously worked hard between then and the final judging. My friend told me how this girl lived in one of the poorest areas of the town, had an alcoholic and abusive father, and a mother who slept all day and drank all night. Apparently this dog was her only friend and she spent all her time with it.  Anyway, to cut a long story short, I gave her the prize for Best in Show and the look on her face was worth a thousand words when we handed her a little silver trophy and a £20 voucher for the local pet shop. 

Apparently she used the voucher to get steel combs and grooming brushes and from that day on her little dog was the smartest best grromed dog for miles.

30 years later that little girl is now one of the most highly respected people in the dog world, has had immense success at Crufts, and is an international dog judge. And that little silver cup is still right in the centre of her trophy cabinet.  I think that might count as "good" coming from involvement with a local charity.

 

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By Jason Dormer
16th Aug 2010 12:30

Stepurhan

Is it vagueness or are you continually misisng the point?

Your explanation as to differing treatment of differing clients level of financial sophistication I agree with, what I have posted is about offering all clients the same courtesy and the same level of service

To make a difference - do I really have to point out that I meant to make a postive difference? Can't we take that as a given?  Of course we can all make a difference in a negative way but on a post regarding a perfect practice I would expect some common sense interpretation - it appears to me that you are nitpicking for the sake of it. 

You have second guessed me, despite your explanations to the contrary I do think you are wilfully misinterpreting the list of qualities I gave.   You may seem them as woolly aspirations, I see them as something to strive for. 

bigdave's comments may fit the query much better than mine,  likewise most of the posts on this thread fit the query much better than your responses, in my opinion.

 

 

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