change accountants & dividends

change accountants & dividends

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We have been with our accountants for 5-6 years and in the past they have always been very good but since we changed from a manual system to computerised we have noted a great difference in the attitude of the accountants towards us. I think this is because he is no longer getting to bill us the monthly fees for accounting support from August 2005. Under the old system we filled in monthly income and expenditure sheets and emailed him at the end of the month. These spreadsheets we purchased from him. Anyway without getting to tangled in detail, We are not happy with never returning our calls and fulfilling what we see as fair play under the terms of the engagement letter. We have had a clear the air meeting but nothing has changed. Can we change accountants at any time or do we need to wait until financial year end.
Any comments regarding this would be greatly appreciated.

In Sage I have an account BS 2300 Directors account balance 20000 at the start of the year, we paid this amount as dividends. Can anyone help with the double entry. I have an account in the p & l labelled dividends 8206. If I post a journal what are the entries to enter this to the p & L

Any comments would be greatly received.

Jennifer Thomson

Replies (8)

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By AnonymousUser
10th May 2005 21:05

Info
Hi

Thank you to all who have replied. We intend to stick with the current accountants until year end August 2005.

Previously our accountants did all the bookkeeping. We also paid for this service. My boss purchased Sage on there advice as the accountant said some our systems would be better if computerised and would meet legal standards. After my boss got the software he had a meeting with the accountants and was told that it was simple to enter the opening balances etc. I entered the opening balances and all works fine but there are some entries which cause problems ie directors current account. We feel that the accountants are taking the money for the bookkeeping support still but are not now doing the work for it.

I am also on a course to enable me to take over the bookkeeping role.

We always pay on time and have never been late with a payment nor have we ever questioned his bills over and above the fixed fees for extra hours spent.
On this point I would like to mention we have spoken now to other accountant firms and realise that we have been overcharged for the past 2 years. As other similar sized firms are quoting half price what we are paying now. Two of the 6 firms we approached came and visited our premises and reviewed our records and had at look at Sage and said we had very good systems in place therefore time spent would be nowhere near what the current accountants are spending. All six quotes are within £100.

We have made very clear what we expect from the new accountants.

4 hours every month for bookkeeping support and if any extra hours are needed then he can bill per hour and we will pay by cheque on due date of invoice
Corporation tax calculations
Self assessment for the boss
P11d, P14, P60, PAYE for me.
Final accounts that an accountants gives at the year end.

Thanks all for listening.

Jen

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By The Minion
10th May 2005 12:18

not wishing to..
interrupt the feeding frenzy of accountants spotting a possible new client, there is a cash issue here.

If you have an agreed fee for your accountant to complete the accounts for this year. Then i would be very tempted to stick with it, assuming you are almost at year end.

If you leave part way through you may find that your total accounts costs for this year would be higher (combined cost of new and old accountant).

If you haven't an agreed fee and you are almost at the year end then if you leave now there is a distinct chance that you will have a "thank you and good bye bill" (the limitting factor of billing lower to keep the client is no longer there).

By all means talk to other accountants, just make sure you pick one you get on with that understands you and your business. Fixed all in fees should not be a problem.

Good luck with the search.

Oh and if you need an accountant in the preston area.....

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By User deleted
10th May 2005 12:55

Missing Information
What we are not told in the original query is whether the present accountant was consulted BEFORE the accounts were computerised. In general, my experience is that many clients will computerise first and ask questions afterwards, having made a complete mess of the transition, resulting in extra work at this end and consequent grumbling about fee increases. Sage is not the most user-friendly package around, especially for the small business, and I urge anyone reading this who is about to computerise to look at the alternatives first. With the usual disclaimer of declaring that I have no interest other than as a satified customer, I would recommend MYOB as an easy-to-use first step. To the best of my knowledge, it is the only accounts program which will run equally happily on both a PC and an AppleMac.

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By User deleted
05th May 2005 13:46

Are your accountants computer friendly
or are they the sort who feel an Excel spreadsheet and letter in Word represent the cutting edge of information technology? You are the customer, they provide the service. If you are unhappy about the service you move on.
With one possible caveat. Are your calls asking for help with Sage? If so then have a look at the engagement letter to make sure that support is actually included.
I'm not sure where you are based but if Kent/East Sussex is not too far away then feel free to email me at [email protected].
By the way, I've got a Sage tutor working with me.

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By User deleted
04th May 2005 17:06

Why is the relationship breaking down?
As you've just switched onto computerising your accounts yourself maybe you are not yet able to do this all that well and it is this that is causing the problems. It may be that your adviser is having to spend a lot of time unravelling what you have posted. I is worth checking that this is not the cause of the problems. If so whether you stay with him or move on it may be wise to pay for some tuition as this will save you a lot of money on fees in the long run. Of course there is rarely a good excuse for not getting back to you.

Many accountants offer free inital interviews to discuss your requirements and give you an indication of fees.Make sure they are fully aware of the sort of level of service you expect and ask if they are not available will you be able to speak to someone else or how long you are likely to have to wait before your queries are answered.

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By tomtrainer
04th May 2005 19:08

I agree with Rachel
First of all, it is not acceptable for your accountant to stop returning your calls, unless the relationship has already broken down, in which case you need a new accountant.

But secondly, I think most accountants would agree that it is difficult for non-accountants to use conventional accounting software (hence your question about dividends), and it is then left to the accountant to unravel the entries. This can be more time consuming than if the accountant had done the bookkeeping in the first place, and this may be your current accountant's problem.

In these cases, it is often better to employ a bookkeeper to operate the accounting software for you. This, however, can be costly.

We provide clients free of charge with a piece of software that allows them to submit all their transactions to us on-line in a format which we can then upload directly into our accounting software, eliminating the need to charge them for bookkeeping. As a result, the client pays for neither bookkeeping nor software, and we get the client's data in a format we can use immediately.

If you would like to discuss the matter in more detail, feel free to e-mail me at [email protected]

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By AnonymousUser
04th May 2005 16:43

Why wait ?
Jennifer

The most important factor to consider is whether your business benefits from the relationship you have with (who should be one of you most trusted busines advisors)your accountant. Clearly your relationship with your accountant has broken down and you feel it is time for a change. This being the case it is better to act sooner rather than later. There may be work that the current incumbent is in the middle of and clearly it is better for them to finish off whatever this might be before the transition. Otherwise start the process.

We are of course always looking for new business relationships and would welcome the opportunity to chat this through with you. Can I e-mail you with my contact details ?

Best of luck

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By User deleted
04th May 2005 16:36

Sage Query
I am assuming you have a debit balance of £20,000 on 2300, the other side being the payment out of the bank.

If so, you need to credit 2300 and debit 8206 with the £20,000.

When you run the year end, this will then all clear down to the retained profit account.

I have seen a lot of clients post dividends to 3201 on sage. This causes problems with the opening balance for retained profit as it never clears down. Does anyone know what that balance sheet dividend account is for?

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