CIS Statements or NOT!!!!!!!!!

CIS Statements or NOT!!!!!!!!!

Didn't find your answer?

I am sure there are plenty out there, sub contract workers registered for CIS and having tax deducted at presumably 20% that cannot get statements from the contractor of the tax deducted........but what do they do? I have had deducts of 20% made and the net payment credited to my bank account, but cannot get a CIS statement. Many promises to provide them to me, but worst from contractors I no longer work for. Can I just gross the net payment up and make a declaration of the tax I have calculated that has been deducted from me?????????
Pedro

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By User deleted
21st Jul 2008 12:28

ill thought out ?
To any small contractors out their who prepare their own CIS deductions; try not to use the usual little brown pay packets.

I can't think of anything else which would bellow "EMPLOYED" quite as loudly.

Perhaps the Revenue thought of this when withdrawing their stationery. Best to train clients to send in an invoice for each payment so they don't need to go to the contractor or Revenue for information.

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By User deleted
29th Jul 2008 17:12

Cis statements
I also have made several attempts to get the info off Revenue in Northern Ireland but to no avail. I have also requested at least for them to give me the figure of CIs tax deducted which need to be put on the individuals tax return (Ie not a breakdown, just the actual figure). They have also said that they wont do this as well. This would have enabled me to at least check if the subbie had all the statements or not. Has anyone made any headway at all??

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By Billy Gibson
28th Jul 2008 14:22

HMRC Requests
We recently requested information from HMRC and received a letter advising us that the client should go back to the contractor initially. If the contractor cannot or refuses to provide evidence the subbie should contact HMRC and provide details of the contractor. The next paragraph threatens the subbie with a penalty of up to £3,000 for failure to keep or preserve the records necessary to complete his tax return. The original request clearly stated that the client had not received the information from the contractor. And worse than that the phone number is a call centre where you have to wait to be answered.

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By appacc
25th Jul 2008 16:43

Reply to Curryman
My point exactly. They have the information and should share it.
I can see where they are coming from but if they think more laterally, HMRC would gain enormously by getting us to assist with their compliance. That is what Working Together is all about.

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By User deleted
25th Jul 2008 14:17

CIS Helpline
Our practice obtained CIS data from our local office this week for 07-08 where no statements had been provided / lost.

We were advised that future requests of this kind will be dealt with by the CIS helpline from the end of July 08.

The info is available though we had to be very persistent to get it!

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By User deleted
25th Jul 2008 13:56

cis statements
At a workign together meeting two days ago and brought this up. HMRC say that if you are not getting your vouchers promptly that after asking contractor for them you should formally report the contractor so HMRC can follow it up.Perhaps your accoutnant could do it. They are breaking the law and we pointed out to HMRC that its not a case of subbies loosing the paperwork many never got it in the first place!


In the meantime is you or your adviser ring HMRC thay shoudl be able to provide you with a list of CIS dedcutions against your NI number.

Some HMoffices may not want to do it but if you ask them they must provide you with the tetails.

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By appacc
25th Jul 2008 13:32

SUB CONTRACTORS TAX DEDUCTIONS
This is my submission to our Working Together group. We await a reposnse from HMRC!

SUB CONTRACTORS TAX DEDUCTIONS
In the past, we have collected CIS25 vouchers which is generally the only income information supplied by sub contractors.
It is well known that sub contractors could deliberately fail to produce vouchers for calculation of their income and this could result in a lower tax bill.
For this reason, we have often asked HMRC for information if we felt one or more vouchers were missing.
We would also do this if a contractor failed to produce a voucher. The information could well be on your record.

It is inevitable that some contractors will struggle with producing evidence under the new system as many are not administratively minded. Certainly, compliance will not be as good as the discipline of issuing CIS25 vouchers. That may not be true in theory but I can tell you it is true in the real world.

We want to Work Together with HMRC to ensure things work smoothly. We have made two approaches to the CIS unit asking for details for sub contractors. In both cases we felt that our information was incomplete and we knew you held the correct information. In both cases you queried the figures last year and there were differences in both our records and yours. We wanted to get it right this year.
You now have a standard letter refusing to provide information on the grounds that taxpayers should keep adequate records.

Well, you must be realistic. Your information is used for compliance purposes and I am sure you check your CIS records against sub contractors declared turnover. Surely it must be better to freely disclose this information to accountants who can then help avoid compliance issues in the first place. In fact, I think our clients CIS records should be available on the website for reference. After all, the deductions are not much different to actual tax payments made on an SA account. Accountants can report differences to you and aid your compliance efforts.

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By Robert Clubb
25th Jul 2008 12:56

Written Statement
The rules say that each Contractor must supply the Subcontractor with a "WRITTEN STATEMENT", within 14 days of the end of each tax month.

From our experience, there are satisfactory "written statements" and there are poor attempts at "written statements". In one case they didn't even show the Contractor's details.......

If the Subbie can't get the Contractor to cooperate, suggest that his accountant (you) will be writing to the tax office to query the absence of Written Statements. That usually gets the Contractor 'focused' !!!!!

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By AnonymousUser
22nd Jul 2008 10:40

What is happening??????
I hear you when you say that the sub contractor should keep records, but honestly how many do? Surely if the contractor is forced to submit monthly returns you would think it easy to copy that to the sub contractor. Yes it sounds too much like employed, but master/slave, rate work, own equipment, several contractors in one year,???? I have recieved a sage P11 for a subbie and for three weeks out of twelve the tax deducted was 22%, otherwise 20%, What is happening?????? Grossing up bacs or cheque payments could cause a nightmare and then what happens in an enquiry if proof is requested????

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By User deleted
19th Jul 2008 14:03

Grossing up
Simply grossing up a net payment may not be accurate. There may have been a materials element to the work done.Therefore it is imperative that the subcontractor also keeps proper paperwork.

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By AnonymousUser
19th Jul 2008 13:31

Not and isolated case
I have had numerous clients that have not recieved either payslips or statements from the contractors, a slim saving grace is that monies recieved have been BACS payments so we have been able to gross up the payments. This is not ideal as there is o proof of tax deducted. In some instances there has been other deductions made, insurance, agents charges etc so the calculated tax may not be correct. Surely there is sometning that can be done for those contractors that are not providing the monthly statements.

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By User deleted
19th Jul 2008 11:02
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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
19th Jul 2008 10:23

Yes, you can
Contractors have been required to issue tax deduction statements (effectively, payslips) to their sub-contractors at least monthly since April 2007, as you probably know, but the previous posters may not.

You do not have to submit these to the Revenue to claim a tax refund. They are just like an employee's form P60 - you might be asked to produce them if, and only if, the Revenue stars an enquiry. So, go ahead and gross up the net payments you have received and show the tax deducted on your tax return.

In the absence of tax deduction statements from the contractor, it would be better if you have some other record of your gross income - I assume that you do not issue invoices to your contractors, but perhaps you have a diary of the hours/days worked and the rate.

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DougScott
By Dougscott
19th Jul 2008 08:00

No voucher, no refund
I'm not sure if the rules have changed recently but a few years ago if you didn't have a voucher there would be no tax refund or even any tax credit and you would be treated as if you had earned the income gross - so you would be taxed "again" on your "net" income.


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By User deleted
19th Jul 2008 02:39

Do contractors
still issue CIS Certificate copies?

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