Is a Self assessment return due simply because one becomes a director? Or is it only due if there is any income such as dividends? What if the dividends are within the BR band? Is a SATR still due
Thanks in advance
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Really? occca?
I can see nothing in s.7 TMA 1970, Notice of liability to income tax and capital gains tax, or s.8, Personal return, which requires a director to either notify chargeability or make a return. What is the basis for your assertion that a director must always file a return?
Yes...... and no
You must file a SATR if HMRC issue one, or a notice to file.
In practice, HMRC do require most directors to file (I'm jumping to the assumption that there are a few that don't) but as Euan says there is no legal authority that says a director is automatically required to do so.
I believe the correct answer to be...
...that there is nothing in the legislation to require a director to submit a tax return but it is HMRC policy to normally request one.
Chris Smail, Langers
It follows ...
... that if HMRC do not issue a tax return (notice) to a director, he is not required by law to notify HMRC that he should have a tax return or to take it upon himself to file one anyhow.
Here is HMRC guidance on the subject
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/sa/need-tax-return.htm#1
Though the SA Manual does list categories of exempt directors that will not normally be required to file.
From HMRC website
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/SA/need-tax-return.htm
You must complete a return if you’re any of the following:
a company director (unless you're a director of a non-profit organisation, for example a charity, and don't receive any payments or benefits)a minister of religion (any faith)a name or member of Lloyd's
Guidance reflect policy not legislation
Not the first time HMRC have confused them.
Enjoy
Chris Smail, Langers
good point chris
and one that does not get nearly enough airspace...this convenient habit HMRC have of confusing (their) opinion with the actual legal position...
pembo
Where's the confusion?
Certainly there's no legislation (that I'm aware of) that says all directors (with exemptions) must file a tax return. But HMRC can decide for themselves who should and should not file a return. If they want all directors to file a return, and issue a notice requiring them to do so, then that is their prerogative. It is the issue of the notice that creates the obligation, not some underlying legislation that dictates who should and who should not receive such a notice.
I guess the only recourse a director may have is to the Human Rights Act or some other anti-discriminatory legislation - good luck with that one. Or is someone really saying that a notice to file a return for a director can be challenged because there is no legal authority? Again, good luck.
This old chestnut
is running again. Why do HMRC issue tax returns to directors.................. because a lot of them live on fresh air and this is something that HMRC do not understand.
So if there are dividends
paid to the director, but within his BR band, then I take it no SATR is due if one has not been originally demanded by HMRC?
Thanks
SA1 makes interesting reading. Irrespective of what the legal rules may be, it would appear that HMRC consider not only company directors but people with income of £100k+ or foreign income of £300 + or income that cannot be collected through PAYE should be registering for self assessment. This last category is an interesting one - how is the average taxpayer supposed to know the answer to that?
The form though can presumably be regarded as no more than an invitation to register - assuming one is not trying to notify income or gains within the requirements of the Taxes Acts. I cannot see that they can do anything to anyone in any of these categories if there is nothing to notify and no loss of tax.
Do Directors have to submit a tx return
Summary:
1: HMRC are aware of directors. They are reported on set-up of a company
2: On possession of this information, if HMRC fail to issue a tax return, then the director surely, with no income to report, cannot be penalised
3: If HMRC persist, fill in the return listing the directorship, but no income details, and let them have the hassle of processing a tax return for no gain!
Not sure I understand the last post ...
Or to be more precise, I am sure that I do not.
"3: If HMRC persist, fill in the return listing the directorship, but no income details, and let them have the hassle of processing a tax return for no gain!"
Granted that the penalty for completing an incorrect tax return is tax-based, are you suggesting that in response to a notice validly served under section 8 it is acceptable to fill in a tax return containing any random figures provided that the computed tax liability is the same as that which would have been computed had you entered the correct figures?
I feel that some people are just trying to create trouble for themselves.
Also
"1: HMRC are aware of directors. They are reported on set-up of a company"
Perhaps not necessarily. A company's directors can change subsequent to incorporation and subsequent to the submission of form CT41G. There is no specific reporting requirement to HMRC on that event.
HMRC could of course obtain the details of directors from Companies House (albeit perhaps not up to date)
With kind regards
Clint Westwood
Director
If director was appointed in January 2012 (when company was formed) and did not receive a demand from HMRC to file 2012 tax return and there was no income for director either for 2012. In 2013 tax year there is an income (company accounts are to January 2013) for which director needs to register for SA. Would the director get a penalty charge for not registering and filing nil 2012 tax return. The form for registration for self assessment on HMRC's site does ask for date director appointed and I was wondering would their system automatically generate a penalty for 2012 as director was originally appointed in January 2012?
Can anybody tell me if there is a requirement for a UK resident to file a return and/or declare his directorship on the self-assessment form if he is a director of a non-UK company but receives no income from it?
director's SAs
My client is already on HMRC radar as a sole trader in a business closely associated with his limited company. If his limited company makes profit - as yet unknown - will I be including this as income in his sole trading tax return ? Or shall I ignore it and just submit the corporation tax return ?