Fees charged - Hourly rate or % of reclaim ??

We always charge a straight fee based on hourly rate.

Otherwise one year a subcntract gets £2,000 back and your 20% = £400.

The next year he has a lot of time off and only gets a refund of £500 - and you end up working for nothing.  

Value pricing is about talking with the client and creating a package based on "how" you deliver the service as well as "what" you do.  Keep in mind the value in the "what" element is really your knowledge, not your time.

For example, VAT on scaffolding or hire of plant cannot be reclaimed so you could advise the client to use contractors who are not VAT registered.  You can make sure the client does get caught in traps like dates on invoices as well as ensuring they can claim for light fittings, curtain poles, fires and fire surrounds, bathroom fittings and toilet-roll holders - these small items can cover your fee.

When value pricing you need to have a walk-away position because if the client suggests £x and this below your personal financial goals you can say no.  

My gut feel is £1,000 would have been more like it but it is very difficult because I do not know about the client.

Bob

www.portfoliomarketing.co.uk

Firstly the fee basis should be agreed beforehand rather than after doing the work.

Secondly, I've just seen a VAT claims firm's terms & conditions provided to a client regarding training allegedly being standard rated rather than VAT exempt, and note the following:-

1.  Original quote of 20% of amount of extra input tax to be VAT recovered - negotiated down to 13% of VAT recovered by the client

2. Terms & conditions / engagement letter look professional to the untrained eye - but do not comply with the law in terms of stating who the legal entity is that is providing the VAT reclaim service - despite the entity allegedly being  owned / operated by a ex "big 10" accountancy firm person who I'd have thought would have known better.

you dont charge on how much the trade has to pay or would these people like to pay a percentage of the tax due for their clients 

Charge a fee for the time involved.

Next thing you know, someone will be adding and "uplift" just like solicitors.

Surely we're better than solicitors?

Charge a fee for the time involved.

Next thing you know, someone will be adding and "uplift" just like solicitors.

Posted by pawncob on Wed, 17/03/2010 - 20:50

Someone is dealing with the wrong law firms.  Try doing some defence work for a legally aided client - the average time to actually get paid is anything up to THREE YEARS.  The longest I ever waited for a fee was 19 years.

Just like accountants, solicitors and barristers have their own ways of charging. Some want to get rich quick, some do the work because they enjoy it. 

I wonder how accountants would react if their Institute stated that they were expected to do so much pro bono work each year?  I wonder how many would spend, as I have in the past, 6 months working on something they knew they would not be paid for?

An example - a year ago I was in court and the case finished just after lunch.  In the waiting area as I left was a young lady totally distraught. She was shaking, crying, terrified, and clearly unable to present her case to a court. I could have simply carried on and gone home (others did). Instead I stopped, talked to her, found out about the case, went into court with her, and represented her. Instead of 6 months inside because she could not have cross examined witnesses, she walked away free because the prosecution witnesses were utterly worthless.  3 hours of my time, for which I received the pleasure of stopping a frightened girl from having her life ruined for nothing.

Now, in a similar situation, but say in the tax office, I wonder how many accountants would represent someone obviously out of their depth for free?  I have actually. But I wonder how many would ?

Greed may motivate some, but I hope it never reaches the stage where it motivates us all.

and daylight robbery at that - its hardly rocket science

it really is how many ways can we screw people to one own adavantage

i would love to know how you sold it to your client and if you do that why dont you pay a percentage of their vat - what professionally is the difference betwenn submitting  a payable to refundable return

and to the lawyer - i warm to your comments but criminal law is quite difeerent from commercial law and your method of recompense identifiable  - i dont expect you sell to your clients on the basis that if you get 4 years rather than 8 its double the fees - which is a variant of the percentage refund fee shysters

I've never noticed that it takes twice as long to submit a repayment claim for £2,000 than it does to submit a repayment claim for only £1,000.

and proud if it you should be ashamed of your self

and i can criticise as much as i like as you respond

why not tell us your name

First of all, my percentage fees are all raised in accordance with the Rules and Guidelines of my Professional Bodies - I'm not sure they'd be best pleased at being accused of sanctioning robbery!

PC

Posted by Anonymous on Thu, 18/03/2010 - 20:46

Maybe professional bodies that sanction it should be accused of being somewhat unprofessional.  Saying it's allowed in the rules is a bit like the Nuremberg defence - "I was only following orders".  And certainly members of professional bodies have a duty to question and seek to change anything sanctioned by that body which they consider to be wrong.

As regards charging %ages personally, and this is my personal opinion, I dislike it.  You might as well hand your client an invoice and agree to toss a coin - double or quits.

Clients pay you to "do a job" ie prepared their tax returns etc, and if that entails a refund then obtaining it for them.  I really cant see where "if the claim is successful" comes into it.  If they are owed a refund then you should know they are, and get it and you should know the exact amount due. There should be no "if" about it.