Ghastly situation with nil P35

Ghastly situation with nil P35

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With some trepidation I went to HMRC's website on 8th April and entered a nil return for one of my clients in respect of the P35.

I immediately received an email acknowledging receipt. This email told me I would get a confirmation email when my client's records were updated.

You won't be surprised to hear that I have heard nothing further from HMRC. When I look at this client's record on HMRC's website apparently no return has been filed. I emailed the online helpline to ask them to help but they referred me to the Employers helpline.

I was answered this morning within 1 ring by the dedicated Agents helpline - wow! An intelligent person told me that the best thing would be for me to try the ordinary Employers' helpline. He didn't seem to be able to do anything. I asked him why it was down to me when I had done what I was told I needed to do. I explained my concern about the company being accused of not having filed the P35 on time and he agreed it was a problem.

So having a dedicated Agents helpline is no use to us either.

Has anyone else had experience of using the website to file a nil P35?

Replies (13)

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
12th May 2011 10:21

Ghastly?

 ... meaning extremely frightening, hideous or horrific (Chambers UK)?  I don't think so.

I have filed plenty of no P35 due notifications both this year and in previous years.  The system is not particularly joined up, probably because the notification is by (structured) e-mail and presumably has to be processed by a real person.  The confirmation e-mail is unlikely to be issued for quite a time yet, but they do usually come through.  However, if you have notified that no return is due, the website is never going to (and does not) say that a return has been filed.

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By Moonbeam
12th May 2011 12:09

I have no previous experience with Nil P35

Euan, it is good to hear that there is no problem with the confirmation coming through months later.

I do seem to remember HMRC accusing lots of people of not actually filing P35's on line a few years ago when they actually had done so and had received a confirmation. I heard that it took quite some time to sort out and that was why I was so concerned in this case.

Maybe I'm being rather silly and HMRC are thoroughly trustworthy people after all.

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By DMGbus
12th May 2011 13:55

No confirmation - after several weeks

Apart from the same-day notification "promising" a confirmation eMail nothing received for the six clients for whom I've filed "No P35 due" declarations.  As evidence that I actual DID file nil P35 due declarations I've kept .pdf copies of the relevant HMRC webpages where the declaration was input, made and submitted - plus the response from HMRC : at least 4 of these nil declaration P35s were made on 8th April and before.

 

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
12th May 2011 14:10

Keep copies

It is certainly a good idea to keep a copy of the input screen (not the one where you actually input the details in boxes, but the next one where it is re-formatted before submission) and of the initial e-mail confirmation, so that if the follow-up e-mail never arrives and/or the Revenue does try to impose a penalty, you have evidence.  However, it is not crucial.  If you say at the time that no P35 is due, they must cancel the penalty.

Incidentally, you do not appeal against any penalty imposed.  You write a letter of complaint that HMRC has imposed a penalty without any legal basis and demand that they correct their mistake by cancelling the illegal penalty.

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By MarionMorrison
12th May 2011 15:43

Don't want to worry but

I filed a whole bunch of structured emails for clutches of a few clients at a time with NIL P35's.  Some where I think the scheme is properly dead, but better to be on the safe side....

On each occasion I got an email back instantly confirming receipt with all the clients names and PAYE reference numbers.  

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By Moonbeam
12th May 2011 15:52

Belt and Braces is best!

I didn't do a screen dump of the input screen, but I will take Euan's other advice on how to tackle any dirty tricks if it all goes pearshaped. I have already warned the client to look out for strident notices from HMRC in due course.

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By pauljohnston
16th May 2011 12:12

@moonbeam

For the nil P35's did you not get an email from HMRC ([email protected]) confirming submission.  We always do.

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By Moonbeam
16th May 2011 14:27

Answer to Paul Johnston

Yes, Paul I did get one email confirmation, but so did all those filed P35's a few years ago who were later told they hadn't and it was just a test transmission.

I have good reason to worry when HMRC don't let me know they've completed a procedure, as I suspect they will blame me first before looking at their systems.

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By vorabj
16th May 2011 14:47

Nil P35

How did you file a NIL P35?

1.     I used the following link

     https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/P35NilEmployer?dept-name=&sub-dept-             name=&location=1&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

2.     I did get an initial confirmation on the screen immediatelyt on submission as follows:

 ' Confirmation

  Thank you

  Your information has been forwarded on to the relevant department at HM Revenue & Customs.'

3.  Thereafte I received an email confirmation as follows:

Thank you. HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) has received your email advising that you have no Employer Annual Return(s) to make for 2010/11.

A confirmation email will be sent to you once your employer record has been updated.

4. I am now awaiting the confirmation email as advised but nothing received so far - but I am not bothered if I do not receive it as I have enough to say that I had submitted.

I also did receive a letter from HMRC Debt and Management Dept., reminding of the overdue PAYE which is nothing to do with the P35. The letter was generated since I had not sent in the 'nil' payslips. In fact I had not received the 'yellow' payslip booklet with the new scheme that I had set up in February 2011. I telephoned them and they kindly noted that no paye was due for the months of 11 and 12. So please do not confuse the HMRC letter from Debt Managment with Nil P35. - like the reply below

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By hclairesavage
16th May 2011 14:51

it could get worse?!

I have similar situation with a client. Notification of nil P35 sent on 22 March 2011 & no confirmation email yet received. BUT my client received at the weekend a letter from HMRC Debt Management & Banking dated 4 May 2011 chasing PAYE/NI payment overdue for 2010/11. It is quite an intimidating letter & I just spent half a morning sorting it all out with calls to HMRC & emails to client, etc . The gentleman I spoke with at HMRC today claimed not to know what I was tallking about when I referred to the process of online notification of a nil P35! Not best pleased - client has not had any payroll during the year (or last). And why are HMRC sending these letters out anyway before the final final deadline of 19th May causing potentially unnecessary grief for agents? 

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Moore Accountancy Altrincham Accountant
By smooreaccountancy
16th May 2011 15:07

I'm getting a tad worried

I like Moonbeam have submitted various nil P35s since the 8th April and bar the immediate email from HMRC saying "Thank you. HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) has received your email advising that you have no Employer Annual Return(s) to make for 2010/11.A confirmation email will be sent to you once your employer record has been updated."  I haven't received anything further.

The email responses don't state the PAYE reference or company name either, so that's also a tad worrying (I've obviously noted when I submitted each one, but still......)

 

Sid

Sudipta Moore - Director, Moore Accountancy

We Do More Than Just Accounting!

http://www.mooreaccountancy.co.uk

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By cydsmith
16th May 2011 16:21

P35 nil returns

I too have had the samr responses from HMRC regarding nil returns and the 'structured email' filing and all returns 'filed' are still showing as not filed on the website. I too am taking the view that I have initial confirmation that they have been filed so I'm up for an argument if they try to impose penalties.

 The one I am slightly concerned about is one I filed for a client who has no employees but deducts CIS tax from subbies and obviously pays it over to HMRC each month. I was told the online form had changed to allow you to do this and Online Services Helpdesk talked me through which bits I needed to fill in (I had to change something in settings). When I got to the end I got the inevitable 'check back in two hours' message and so far haven't received any confirmations and the return is still showing as not filed on the website. I think this one is going to be a phone call.........but anyone else tried this? 

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By Moonbeam
16th May 2011 17:00

Interesting feedback...

I do know that when filing a nil P35, someone at HMRC has to manually adjust the individual company's record. Because this is a manual process, as I think Euan mentioned early on, we won't ever see that company's record automatically amended when we go into our bit of the website.

I regularly update the website with a monthly nil return for each company where this is required and I can see that this act itself has saved me some unpleasantness and aggravation this year end.

Presently HMRC are spending a lot of time chasing people who are claimed legitimate PAYE overpayments this year in respect of previous years, by ignoring the overpayments completely. No wonder some of us are wondering nervously what other horrible things are planned for us Nil P35 ers!

 

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