How can I tell whether I have hired a bad accountant

How can I tell whether I have hired a bad...

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I have just hired an accountant to do my taxes but I am not sure whether he is good or bad. His website was amongst the top 10 in google; that's why I hired him.

How can I tell whether I've hired a bad accountant.

Many thanks.
Mike

Replies (37)

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By pawncob
08th Dec 2008 17:33

careful
We'll have to be careful or Mike will think we're not taking his question seriously.
As if.............

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By Richard Willis
08th Dec 2008 11:19

I am a little confused
Hi Everyone

I am confused by the fact that we seem to have tapped into a vein of acountants with a sense of humour. Are we not all supposed to be a bunch of boring old farts?

I was once given a book of graffiti, supposedly gleaned from various walls around the world. One was a picture of a film poster for 'When zombies ruled the world'. The sub-heading read something like 'When hell fills up the living dead will walk the earth'.

Some wag had written at the bottom 'This is a film about chartered accountants'!

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By User deleted
08th Dec 2008 10:48

Yep

Chanel if I'm feeling sexy, Estee Lauder if not.

Although I tend to avoid flat shoes and go for stilettos or high heals.

I find they match my pink Jag.

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By User deleted
06th Dec 2008 21:23

Arrangements for continuity of practice
.
A sole-practitioner and his accountancy practice often die of the same heart attack.

Does your accountant have continuity of practice arrangements? Did he tell you who his alternate is? Do you have the alternate’s contact details?

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By rhangus.
06th Dec 2008 00:33

Brian
Thums up.

The rest of u need to move on and stop talking boring nonsense.

There endeth the thread.

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By Dave Paveley
05th Dec 2008 22:27

You wear Chanel too Paul?

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By skylarking
03rd Dec 2008 17:48

Shift of emphasis
Let's agree, then, that what you are doing is exceptional. It doesn't mean that those who do not are poor or lazy. Any effort to communicate is to be commended and by whatever means at this time of year. Surely only those who do not communicate at all AND have no SATRs can be described as lazy.

If you think that the vast majority of practising accountants are not busy at the moment then you are out of touch.

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By User deleted
05th Dec 2008 13:45

Hey Rebecca.

That's strange. Me too.

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By User deleted
05th Dec 2008 11:20

In summary then ...
OP: To get an answer to your question consider the first 5 posts, then no's 9 and 13.

Don't bother with the crazies nor those who diss your bookkeeper without knowing anything about her.

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By User deleted
04th Dec 2008 20:39

I agree with Swiss Toni...
.
but I would go even further...

Check his calculator!

It could be an old TV remote control that is broken. That is a sign that your new accountant may still be using a slide rule or abacus to do the maths.

Good luck.

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
04th Dec 2008 20:36

oh dear
I love my Jag.

But at least I wear Chanel and not Lynx.
And black court shoes (for business)
Does that make me good or bad?

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By Swiss Toni
04th Dec 2008 16:37

Re


Yes Hello Hi.

The first thing to check is how many fingers does your accountant have, i usually try to count during a handshake, it is a subtle process and do not make the mistake of breaking eye contact.

Next, look at your accountants shoes...... try to avoid the shiney right sided buckle wearing accountants as these are usually straight out of Hogworts and smell faintly of Lynxx Africa. My top tip is to employ the services of a moccasin shoe wearing accountant, the preferable colour would be lack or brown.... avoid blue as they will clash with you at some stage.

Another point is look at the vehcile the offending accountant is driving, previous accountants of mine have driven Yugo's, Fords, Fiats and Jaguars, I have allways found that the ford driving accountant is reliable, trustworthy and charges resonable fees. However the Jaguar driving accountant has a thirst for cash and will often breakdown on you. Its a matter of judgement, if you are happy with the work your accountant does and the fees he is charging the happy days all round.

Why not try one of the thoroughly decent chappies on this forum?

Good Luck!

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By User deleted
04th Dec 2008 15:17

More to the point
After reading your further information Mike, I would advise that if you have any concerns still make a list of all your questions as to why he's done (or doing) all he's doing and go and ask him.

We don't know what you asked for, or said to him, or your full details so no-one here is really in a position to say though as others have said, no alarm bells are ringing for us on the limited information we have.

If you aren't sure a company's the right thing for you then going for a chat could sort the whole matter out one way or another and you can proceed with what is best for you. I'm sure your bookkeeper has your best interests at heart, but if they are saying they cannot prepare statutory accounts I would doubt if they really know what is best for you legal structure or VAT-wise. Ask the accountant and your first instinct should be to trust him. Really bad accountants are rare.

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By MartinLevin
04th Dec 2008 11:20

Accountants and their services [ABC Books]
When I set up my practice (in 1970), I listened to my clients. In 1979, they requested a simple book that they could keep for their business records. I rolled my sleeves up, and designed the ABC ACCOUNTS BOOK.

Instead of charging them, I gave each client one free every year. I still do. The practice then has good records to prepare Financial Accounts. The Revenue (as it then was) did not manage to walk all over any client on an investigation. I even beat the VAT twice at the Tribunals. Good records give protection.

Great co-operation of clients meant that I could re-classify them as:
"A" type clients (Great);
"B" Class (a bit slow, but OK); and
"C" Class (awful, and time-wasters).
I kicked out only 6 "C" Class clients, and the resulting time that was freed up was phenomenal.

I was able to devote my time to other aspects.

I laugh at those accountants who have the December and January panic, because they have allowed their clients to walk all over them. My clients' returns were filed before the 31 July so that they would not be making artificial Payments on Account.

In practice, I would not be "bought". Yellow Pages is full of accountants - let them pick one out from there. Be proud. Accept instructions, but check for the service.

By the way, my adventures have extended into the media. I have guested on several Nationwide Radio Programmes, and on a Monday night (at 8pm), while some of you might be labouring away with Tax Returns, why not tune in to the Internet on:
www.TheJumboSound.com
it's Hospital Radio, but with music and comedy - keeping you amused.

The ABC ACCOUNTS BOOKS are still available via Emandee Publishers through my website:
www.MartinLevinABC.co.uk

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By User deleted
04th Dec 2008 11:19

.
It all sounds ok to me. I can't see any bad advise from the accountant - but some from the book-keeper and your friend who advised you to go limited - how can they know what is best for your circumstances?

To close one VAT registration and have a new one has great advantages. Also, by deferring the de-registration avoids you having to stump potentially a lump sum immediately in one go upon de-registration.

Your book-keeper is clearly not qualified to advise. Did they say before that they were not qualified to advise? Did they put themselves over as able to do the accountancy and tax or did you want to save a few quid on accountancy bills? Had your book-keeper advised you go limited a few years ago, then there were some awesome tax savings - first 10,000 profits at 0% tax etc..

The news-letters are ok, but is that really important to you? I did one once for the new CIS scheme, but included it with a personal letter and guidance for each client. I tend to think "wow how much did this newsletter cost" if I get one.

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By User deleted
04th Dec 2008 08:39

Mike
I agree with previous comments, from your circumstances there is nothing that would raise any alarm bells - from a client's perspective. If you came to me and aired your griefs, I would reassure you that I was - and still am - acting in your best interests. What I would be saying to myself is perhaps unmentionable, given my current workload.

I would also echo the comment that by having your bookkeeper deal with your tax affairs, you could potentially have lost £'000's of tax savings over the years. I have seen it too many times. People go for the cheap option unaware that they are losing out.

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Rebecca Benneyworth profile image
By Rebecca Benneyworth
03rd Dec 2008 22:08

Going limited to save money
Did the accountant go through the numbers and identify how much tax you are going to save and what it would cost you?

It is still possible to save tax by going limited but the big tax savings have declined now. You don't say what your profits are but there are some potentially significant costs to bear in mind which reduce the tax savings. Limited company status is something that should be considered in a bit of depth as it doesn't suit everyone.

To be fair if you went to the accountant saying "I want to be a limited company" you possibly didn't give him the chance to look at the bigger picture. To be frank the benefits of limited liability as we go into a bad recession is probably the main issue at present so even if it costs you a bit it may be the right answer anyway. It's just that good advice is not only about the tax pennies. It needs to take into account a wide range of issues.

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By Jason Dormer
03rd Dec 2008 17:54

On the contrary
I do think that accountants are busy at this time of year! Reason being that they dont invest enough time in controlling their clients rather than being controlled by their clients.

Then when the chance comes to be a bit pro active and provide some real benefit to clients they do not have the time to do so because they are buried under a pile of SATR's.

I am not accusing anyone of being lazy, I mentioned that the newsletter approach was a lazy one. how can it be anything but when it is simply one summary sent to all clients, whether they want it or not, without any factoring in of how it relates to each individual circumstance.

Treat clients like numbers and they will show no loyalty and rightly so.

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By Jason Dormer
03rd Dec 2008 17:34

Harsh but true
At the moment im sititng in front of the telly watching the weakest link nursing a hangover from a christmas party that some idiot arranged on a Tuesday.

Today aside I refuse to take part in the December / January rush as I invest time in my clients and select the right clients.

Because of this we can (and do) offer occasional meetings without charge for 100+ clients on major changes that will affect their business and personal finances. Most will not take up that offer but be grateful of the opportunity - the ones that do will be hugely grateful and the time can be put down as a marketing expense as this type of value drives exceptional word of mouth.

I do think that a newsletter is lazy and adds nothing to the clients business. You know as well as I do that you can give clients these facts but until you apply it to their indivdual circumstances then its wasting your time and theirs.

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By skylarking
03rd Dec 2008 17:19

Very harsh Jason
What are you doing? Busy arranging 100+ meetings individually with clients to discuss how the PBR will personally affect them, charging them for the privilege after realising that for many of them it makes little or no difference?
Most of us at this time of year are desperately trying to churn out the SATRs. Aren't you?
Anyway, this accountant seems OK to me. He's had the sense to get the money up front from a complete stranger who hasn't been introduced by another client.

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By User deleted
03rd Dec 2008 17:06

difficult
What surprises me is that you paid all the fees up front to a man that you had only just met and clearly you have some reservations about otherwise you would not have posted this question.
However, I would not listen to much to your book-keeper as unless she
has had tax training she did not do you any favours by completing your tax returns as a sole trader. In addition she is confused regarding the vat
registration many people prefer to have a new vat registration with a new
enterprise.
Also maybe she should have advised you to go limited a long time ago.

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By Jason Dormer
03rd Dec 2008 16:58

A newsletter?
Sending a newsletter about the PBR in my opinion is as bad as your accountants approach of simply sticking it on his site.

A newsletter is an impersonal, lazy attempt, and adds no value .

Unless it contained an invitation to discuss the aspects and opportunities to the business and the individual, of course.

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By skylarking
03rd Dec 2008 16:25

Mike
Why didn't you just go with your friend's accountant? Your friend seems happy.
Anyway, what you have described doesn't ring any alarm bells with me.

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By User deleted
03rd Dec 2008 15:50

Sorry...
I didn’t realise you would need more information. I thought you could just give me a few hints on what to look out for so that I can decide whether he is bad or good. I hope he doesn't see post.

OK, I have been self employed for a number years and throughout this time my bookkeeper has been doing my VAT and personal returns and submitting them to the taxman. In September this year, a friend of mine told me he was going limited to reduce his tax bill and he advised me to do the same.

I discussed this with my bookkeeper but she said she was not qualified to do limited company accounts and that I needed to find an accountant. I searched on Google and within seconds my new accountant’s website popped up. I visited his house, liked the guy and paid all his fees upfront. The fees cover the preparation of my 2008 tax return and submitting it online, registering my limited company and winding down my sole trader business.

However, he said I could not cancel my VAT number for my sole trader business as I was on a cash scheme of some sort. I had to wait until all the money I was owed had been paid and VAT declared to the taxman.

He formed the limited company and registered it for VAT straight-away – very impressive stuff. The problem is, I now get two VAT forms to fill in and two bills from my bookkeeper. To make things worse, the VAT periods are not even the same. My bookkeeper seems to think that my accountant should have told the taxman that I was already registered for VAT and ask permission to use the same number for my limited company and thereby avoid this hassle. I have spoken to my accountant about this and he said that the decision to register the Limited company for VAT was based on the information he was given two months ago - not his fault.

Another issue is that my friend’s accountant sent him a newsletter covering last week’s budget, but I got nothing from my accountant. I have asked him about this and he said all the information is on his website, which is true.

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By Jason Dormer
03rd Dec 2008 14:41

Bad Accountants
I have to disagree with some of the comments on here.

Qualifications mean nothing - the chanes are an unqualified has done the work anyway and some of the worst cases I have seen are from those with the 'better' badges.

As for banks, they will simply send people the way of those most likely to reciprocate, the banks generally don't know who is good and who is not, they just want the return work. Commission based so not impartial.

Recommendations are worthless unless in the same or similar trade with similar requirments - whats good for the sole trade plumber is not always good for the multi million pound business being groomed fro sale.

The simple truth is - you don't know and it's pot luck. Always trust your gut instinct though. A few other tips would be to ask the accountant for free reign to ring their clients for testimonials, check the accounts carefully asking some pre researched questions, establish how much value the accountant has given you, gauge the professionalism from the outset, see if promises are kept, and also the availability aspect.

None of the above will tell you though whether or not the accountant is any good though as you will not know what constitutes a 'good' accountant because you don't know what you don't know.

As with all business relationships listen to your instincts.

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By Rachel Battersby
03rd Dec 2008 13:51

How do you know if you have hired a bad accountant?
The truth is you probably can't tell. I've had a potential new client singing the praises of his existing accountant (except for cost) and obviously not sure whether to switch or not. The truth is he probably doesn't want to switch at all.

That accountant however is under criminal investigation for his own tax evasion. He is not qualified so there are no Institutes to strike him off and warn the client something could be very wrong. The accounts are prepared for his clients by a very nice young man not long out of school. I know this because of confidential work I did for this man prior to finding out the truth and I cannot tell anyone about it. He may not have this accountant by 18 months time because there is a real possibility he will be sent to jail.

So if you're generally happy with the advice and service you get and HMRC don't start an enquiry which leads you to think all is not quite right all you can do is to trust your instinct and ask your accountant if he is a member of an Institute and if he is not, if he holds Professional Indemnity Insurance (PII). You can ask about his experience - see where he trained and how long he was at other firms before starting on his own. But there is never any guarantee. Institute membership and or PII alone will protect you (I think all Institutes require members to have PII) though there are also some good people out there without so if you think you're happy with an unqualified I don't see why you should switch unless you have serious concerns.

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By MartinLevin
03rd Dec 2008 12:40

What's a good accountant
On the positive front, I was offered these three points many years ago by a client:

1. How much to you?
2. How much to the TaxMan?
3. Have you dropped me in it?

Judgment on number (3) might be the best test for clients.


On another matter, I am having difficulty in returning to this Website, as once a few days have passed, I am asked to "Log In", and then I seem to be put in a "Loop". So, apologies to anyone who has asked me a few questions, and wonders why I haven't replied. I am also frantically busy. Visit my Website:
www.MartinLevinABC.co.uk for time-saving hints, etc.

ANSWERS to others Questions:
1. INITIAL LETTERS: these abbreviations are awful to outsiders.
I often read initial letters such as "MLR" as Minimum Lending Rate, while the arrogance of contributors imply others (such as Money Laundering Regulations).
2. Spelling English with an Upper case "E."
Isn't this how we were taught all those years ago?
3. Spelling with Upper case letters in the middle of a sentence.
Ever been behind "White-Van-Man" in traffic, and trying to make sense of whatever his website meant?
4. Poor quality English by contributors on this website:
OK so this is a CatFight. Don't the likes of Messrs Angus and Paveley with their personal vendettas ("I'm better than you nah-nah-de-nah-nah") with their difficult to read and often badly spelt words, denigrate the usefulness of this forum?

HAPPY TIMES: I am on the Internet on Monday Evenings at 8pm to 9pm (I clash with University Challenge). When you are still trying to process Tax Returns at that time, why not tune in: There's Music AND Comedy. The link is:
www.TheJumboSound.com
[See what I mean about Capital Letters in the middle and White-Van-Man]

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By AnonymousUser
03rd Dec 2008 11:53

Why do you ask no2!
To echo Davids comment - why do you ask? presumably something has set your mind racing on the subject?

it is worth mentioning (from an Accountants perspective) that sometimes clients can have a slightly warped view of what makes a 'good' accountant - for eg, I've lost a couple of clients because I wouldnt 'just put through' things like Plasma Tvs, games consoles into company accounts when they were blatently not deductable in the scenario, same for not filing/completing on work without payment clearing......sometimes previous accountants or pub talk can set unrealistic views on what makes a good/bad accountant......

Tell us more!!

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By rhangus.
03rd Dec 2008 11:30

Watch new accountant like a hawk
Its worse than a minefield out there.
Pick one u r happy with but dont expect him to do a huge amount. keep pushing him to ensure he is doing what u want him to (legally of course)
Make sure he pushes u enough and ensure that he asks u all pertinent qs. if he has not asked a ceratin q and u r wondering y not, then confront him.
what im saying is just keep an eye on him as they have a nasty habit of doing the bare minimum and that part is often hidden giving u the impression all is well and that they are on your side. Generally not so as they are greedy so and sos with hourly rate one of their main concerns.

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By User deleted
03rd Dec 2008 11:28

Thats all well and good Simon but...
... a lot of people on the employed side of the fence do not know anyone who uses an accountant.

And with more and more people being made redundant and starting their own businesses there is a great danger of them failing, with bad advice being a contributing factor.

(If you can find him, the manager at your bank (assuming you have a high street account) will probably be able to recommend one, or will point you at their business banking section you should be able to help)

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By pawncob
03rd Dec 2008 11:18

What do you think of so and so...
Only ever choose an accountant on a personal recommendation.
(Otherwise you might as well stick a pin in yellow pages)

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By User deleted
03rd Dec 2008 10:43

See a few
Go to visit a few accountants and see if you get on. I like the link below in Dave's comment.

Do you have friends / relatives who use accountants? Ask them if they are happy and perhaps go the referall route.

But think why are you unhappy? Is it just that you've taken the plunge and now feel nervous? They might be ok, so don't just write them off, but go to see a few and see how you feel then.

I had a call from a guy, who didn't leave a message but I had his number on my caller ID. I was on the other phone. I called him back within 20 minutes. He said "oh I was looking for an accountant and saw your details in yellow pages, but I got another one now". Wow. To choose and commit within 20 minutes to an accountant from yellow pages is mad!

Shop around. See a few.

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By Dave Paveley
03rd Dec 2008 10:04

Have a read of..

..this.

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By User deleted
03rd Dec 2008 08:50

More to it than that?
Hi Mike,

To choose an Accountant just on their google ranking seems like a strange choice. There must be more to it than that. You presumably met the Accountant - Did you like them? Were the fees reasonable? Was the initial advice good?

You need to provide us with a bit more information.

When choosing an Accountant you should ask about written testimonials and whether you could contact any of the Accountants existing clients to see how they have got on. If there are no written Testimonials or the Accountant refuses to let you contact his clients there may be something wrong.

So a bit more information about the Accountant would be useful please.

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By cate.teideman
03rd Dec 2008 06:50

Ask about your new accountant's qualifications
Hi Mike,

Have you had a meeting with your new accountant yet? Have you signed a contract? The contract should say which Accountancy body he is registered with. The contract should also mention that he has Professional Indemnity Insurance, that he complies with Anti Money Laundering regulations, and what the complaints procedure is if you have an issue.

If you are not comfortable with your accountant then you should find someone else. You will have a confidential and personal relationship with your accountant, to a degree, and you should be able to trust them.

Talk to your local Business Link, as they will be able to recommend local accountants. Also talk to other business people that you know, see who they use and if they are happy with their service.

Good luck.

Cate

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By David2e
03rd Dec 2008 06:40

Why do you ask?
Hi Mike

What is it that makes you ask?

I agree with Stuart, if you are seriously wondering and concerned it's usually best to trust your instinct.

Are you concerned for something that has happened, or that you're not confident in? Or merely curious as to how to tell?

Cheers

David Toohey
The Accountants Circle

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By JSJ54
03rd Dec 2008 06:28

Trust your intuition
if you think he's a bad accountant then you're probably correct.

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