Move from ACCA to ICAEW

Move from ACCA to ICAEW

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I am thinking about moving from ACCA to ICAEW. ACCA fails to meet the needs of sole practitioners. From what I have seen ICAEW is far from perfect but is is far better than ACCA.

ACCA is global (thinly spread) without being effective. In UK it contiues to fail to meet my needs.

Any views on this?

Replies (40)

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 12:54

Is there really a difference?

I have a particularly low opiion of the ICAEW and its relevance to small practices.  If the ACCA is worse, then it must be truly bad.  Sometimes I look at the accounts and their announcements and shudder at some of the expenditure that they lay out.  For me the subscription is simply marketing costs and not payment for anything of value.

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By occca
21st Feb 2010 12:55

Personally I don't think it's worth it....

My friends who are ICAEW think that ACCA correspondence, etc is better than theirs

I have only had need to call ACCA once, though am a small practitioner.  I am interested in which areas you are finding them lacking

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 13:31

ICAEW membership is too expensive to maintain!

I would rather keep my ACCA designation as ICAEW member due plus CPD are too expensive to me.

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 13:45

ICAEW is better!

If you are engaged in public practice then ICAEW is a better choice.

However, if you work in commercial organisation then any one of CCABs is fine.

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 14:00

ICAEW logo

ICAEW looks far better on the website compared to ACCA's (ugh!)

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 15:09

ICAEW geared to UK? From OP

I think ICAEW is better for Accountants in England and Wales. Historcally, it has been a home based body. This for me has the advantages for better meeting the needs of home members.

ACCA is trying to be too many things to too many countries.

Further, I have found ACCA to be inflexible. A good example of this is when I was planning to sign up to a franchise, I was informed by the franchisor that if all the bodies they found ACCA the least helpful in getting a practicing certificate. They just made it very difficult.

CIMA and ICAEW went out of their way to help their members.

I then went on my own and managed to get a practicing certifiactes with some difficulty.

ACCA needs to change it is just too much up it self! It needs a big culture change.

I wish I could sack the senior managemet team of ACCA and bring in some new blood.

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By User deleted
21st Feb 2010 21:43

Sack ACCA Management Team

I support your idea to sack management team of ACCA and re-configure the council as well.   The current strategy is just rubbish.   It should focus on UK and aimed at serving home members instead of trying to forge reciprocity with bodies in different countries. If ACCA is really good enough then prestigious institutes around the world will court you.

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By User deleted
22nd Feb 2010 11:01

ACCA - Registering your dissatisfaction

What you can do is once a year vote against whatever the "Board" recommends, including Adoption of the accounts and Re-appointment of the auditors.

 

As a neglected sole practitioner who is totally opposed to plans for global domination (cultural imperialism by any other name), I take some satisfaction in doing this and the % of others doing likewise goes up each year.

 

Perhaps eventually we'll get a referendum on the ACCA's future direction.

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By User deleted
22nd Feb 2010 19:19

Not just ACCA

Also the Chartered Institute of Taxation is poorly managed.

In our case the executive council is comprised mostly of Chartered Accountants and the CIT qualification is their second qualification. They do not seem to care about their members whose sole qualification is the CIT.  The Institute are undemocratic.  Even their in-house journal    does not contain a readers letters page. The Institute   tolerates no criticisms  from its ordinary members.

 

 

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
22nd Feb 2010 22:31

What difference would it make to your practice generally?

Hi - have read your comments a couple of times but you have not really given any substantial reason to indicate why you think that the ACCA is so awful or the ICAEW so great to cause you to jump ship (or leave the frying pan for the fire).

You mention the practicing cert thing but, on the assumption you don't have to do this on a monthly basis and that you are not on the phone all day trying to get advice from ACCA technical dept, who are all busy dealing with foreigners, I feel I'm missing how your membership causes you grief on a day to day basis.

For my own part, as an ACCA member, I have had gripes with them but they have come up trumps with their technical help on a number of occasions, I also find their courses good value for money and the monitoring visit I had last year was, on the whole, a positive experience.  In an average month though, I have to say it would make little difference to me or my clients whether I was FCCA, FCA or RSPB.

On the foreigners thing, some might say that by being a global accounting body they are better placed to help their members worldwide to do business or have transportable skills? Or maybe influence aspects like International Accounting Standards?

I have lots of dealings with ICAEW firms and, on balance, hear similar gripes and praises, I do though find their body's website easier to navigate than ACCA's, in fact I find most websites easier to navigate than the ACCA's but I think I'd find that whether I was from a small or large firm.

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 08:59

Do you think a 'delegated proxy voting system' is democratic?

ACCA COUNCIL ELECTIONS TO BE RIGGED - AGAIN

ACCA has no shame. Its hierarchy has rigged past council elections and the same is set to happen again for the 2008 elections.

ACCA's stature in Hong Kong has been diminished and it is now keen to cement its position in Malaysia though there are some critical voices. To appease local opinion ACCA  hierarchy has decided to fix the outcome of the elections and ensure that a person connected with its Malaysia office gets elected to council.

The key to this is the 'delegated proxy voting system'. Under this ACCA members are encouraged to delegate their vote to an officeholder, usually President. The President casts hundreds, if not thousands to votes, to ensure that the friendly cronies get elected to the council.  Election to council enables some small-minded people to feel important whilst the hierarchy ensures that troublesome questions  are not raised.

Despite request at various AGMs, ACCA members have not been given any information about the election candidates which benefit or suffer from the mass casting of votes by President. The president is supposedly accountable to council members, but even they are not told of the beneficiaries. A small clique fixes the election and thus council members are "appointed" rather than elected.

The 'delegated proxy voting system' is forbidden for trade unions in the UK. Yet the ACCA  hierarchy uses it to play its selfish games. 

At various AGM's ACCA officials have defended the archaic voting system by claiming that it is used by major corporations. Yes, that it true. Enron, WorldCom, Parmalat and many other companies involved in headline scandals used the delegated voting system.  ACCA feels no shame in emulating failed companies or subverting the will of its members.  An organization that cannot provide a moral lead in managing its own affairs cannot be respected by others. That is why ACCA has no influence on governance, accounting and auditing issues in the UK or anywhere else.

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 09:06

Empire Building at ACCA

There have been more personnel changes at ACCA. Recent departures include Andrew Harding, ACCA managing director of finance and operations. John Prosser, editor of Accounting & Business, has been replaced by Chris Quick.

The reasons and circumstances of changes have not been explained to ACCA members. There is nothing on the ACCA website ior its latest magazine. There is no mention of any compensation paid to the departing staff. Previous ACCA accounts have always been silent on such matters even when the departing staff received compensation for loss of job. Keeping members in the dark is an old ACCA trait and there are no signs of change even though a new CEO is at the helm.

AABA understands that more departures are on the way. A senior person from the PR Department is on gardening leave.

 

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 09:08

Thanks Andrew Harding helping CIMA to gain reciprocity with CPA
CIMA poaches ACCA exec

Andrew Harding to oversee institute strategy

Brian Hanney

CIMA has poached a senior executive from rival institute the ACCA to join its senior management team.

Andrew Harding, previously managing director of finance and operations at the association, will oversee CIMA’s new global strategy on alliances and partnerships. He will be based at CIMA’s global headquarters in London.

Harding built the ACCA’s first business development team in the UK and went on to lead marketing strategies in territories including Central and Eastern Europe, Vietnam, Southern Africa and China.

CIMA chief executive Charles Tilley said: ‘I am delighted to welcome Andrew to CIMA’s senior management team. I believe his extensive experience will underpin CIMA’s core activities and will beef up our drive for international growth in these challenging economic times.

Harding said: ‘I am very excited to be joining CIMA. It is the only accountancy body that focuses primarily on business needs and one which I have long admired.’

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 10:00

This is what members services is about..................

 

Free subscription for Competency Development Tool (CDT)‏ for HKICPA Members Competency Development Tool (CDT) - Premiere Launch    One of the four major investments recently announced by the Institute is the Academy project, in which we plan to introduce new and enhanced online learning and networking services for members. As the first step, we are now introducing the online Competency Development Tool (CDT). This tool aims to help you plan your career, identify the competencies you need to reach the top of your career stream and, most importantly, link you to some resources to assist you in your professional development. Developed by the New Zealand Institute of Chartered Accountants, CDT is licensed for the Institute’s use in Hong Kong. We adapted the tool after interviewing our members in focus groups so that it would suit the needs of CPAs working in Hong Kong and on the mainland. CDT allows you to plan your career based on career streams, which are the roles you perform (or you wish to perform) in your career. A single job title can often include more than one career stream. There are 18 accountancy career streams in CDT with more than a hundred relevant competencies that help you understand your developmental needs. CDT offers five key features: career aspiration, competency assessment, professional development, development plan and job satisfaction, which can help you in any stage of your career development. It is fully integrated, so that you can move through the features in the order that best meets your needs. Click here for the Chief Executive’s Introduction and highlights of the tool. I encourage you to visit our CDT webpage to learn more and hope you will enjoy the benefits brought to you by this versatile online tool. We have also developed a video series “Learn the ways to success” featuring interviews with Institute's members at the top of the five career streams in which more than 70 percent of the Institute’s members work. These videos give invaluable advice on how to develop your own potential. During the premiere launch, thanks to the funding received from the Professional Services Development Assistance Scheme of the Commerce and Economic Development Bureau, the Institute is offering a free subscription, valid until 31 December 2010 for 1,000 members. This is open to members who attend an information session or participate in a lucky draw. From 1 April 2010, members can subscribe for the normal price of $190 to enjoy all the benefits of CDT. Taking this opportunity, on behalf of the Institute, I would like to thank all those members who have contributed to this project by participating in the video interviews, focus group sections, the CDT surveys and the user acceptance test. 

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
23rd Feb 2010 11:08

Off at tangents or what?

Did any of the last 4 anonymous (am I surprised?) posters read the Op's question?  If not have another go.

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 13:47

Join ICAEW from ACCA

It’s interesting to learn that management staffs of ACCA jump boat quicker than members.

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2010 13:49

He has gone!

I know Singapore’s branch head has gone missing recently.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 06:32

Nothing new for ACCA management jump boat!

 

ACCA Scotland boss defects for ICAS role Riddell ends seven year stint at ACCCA Written by AccountancyAge.com Accountancy Age, 28 Jun 2007 In a move that will certainly rile the ACCA, Stuart Riddell, head of ACCA Scotland, has jumped ship by joining rival body the Institute of Chartered Accountants of Scotland (ICAS), The Scotsman reported. Having spent seven years at ACCA Scotland, Riddell has now been appointed executive director, members services, at ICAS. AdvertisementRiddell said his role would be to ensure members and the business community can make the most of the opportunities and expertise provided by ICAS. He starts on 6 August

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 08:57

NOT Off at tangents

The posting at 13:47 on 23/02/2010 is clearly NOT Off at tangents.

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By robbieb666
24th Feb 2010 11:58

ACCA is best

I have always felt that ACCA are more suited to the smaller practitioner, perhaps you have just had a bad experience, and there are more ACCA firms appearing all the time!!!! Stick with us!!

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By chatman
24th Feb 2010 12:00

Another vote for staying where you are

I am an ICAEW member, and do not feel I get much value for my subscription, especially now other organisations are allowed to use the "Chartered" designation. I think the hassle involved in gaining ICAEW membership would be greater than the benefits.

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By Goldleaf47
24th Feb 2010 12:06

Hmmmm

There are just as many disaffected ICAEW members as there are ACCA. I'm not convinced moving is the answer.

It is a truth universally  acknowledged that you get back what you put in.

I have found ACCA supportive and helpful when both in practice and industry – but then I’ve spent time going to meetings, sitting on committees and saying my piece. You have a representative – talk to them and let them represent you. Even better, become a representative yourself – I’m happy to make way for someone better than me!  

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 12:09

Image does matter!

I guess the image of Chartered Accountant (ICAEW) in the eyes of general public is valued higher than ACCA especially after the breaking news of D Yeates criminal sanctions.

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By The Minion
24th Feb 2010 13:00

i feel quite exposed here amongst

a herd of anonymice, a professional footballer and alan carr(?) but here goes.

I have seen ICAEW and ACCA approach to complaints against members. My impression of the ICAEW was that it was extremely difficult to have a chartered member repimanded for anything, even having taken my complaint to the extreme of appealing against the decision only to find that the person who reviewed it got their information mixed up and decided that the member was not guilty of anything at all!

My experience of ACCA is that they tried to look realistically at the complaints and the feeling i got was that they were actually looking at it from the complainant side with the onus being on the member to prove that the compaint was not justified. In our case we were able to prove that the client had lied to ACCA in their complaint but only after months of correspondence.

So yes we have had a complaint against us, generated by us wanting to be paid by an ex client and yes we were exonnerated. We learnt a big lesson though - put EVERYTHING IN WRITING!

So if you want the higher costs and protection of ICAEW go for it, we are more than happy to be under a global more cost effective brand with helplines that have been worth every penny. At the end of the day the clients use the brand as an indicator but ultimately they choose the person.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 13:22

Really Global?

What do you mean by “Global”?   ACCA isn’t recognized in United States, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Australia nor China.

Do you mean having a branch office in Vatican City, Nauru, San Marino, Saint Kitts and Nevis or Antiqua and Barbuda is global accounting body?

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 13:25

Be Specific

What kind of misconduct case did ACCA deal with?

A president of a Professional Body who committed criminal offence is most disrepute & devastating!

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By robbieb666
24th Feb 2010 13:31

Living in the past
I believe the general public did view ICAEW as the premier qulifaction 10-20 years ago but not any more. Alowing us to use the term charterted has meant there is no difference to joe public.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 14:12

Chartered or non-Chartered is not the point!

Chartered or non-Chartered is not the point. If you look at CPA Australia and Institute of Chartered Accountants in Australia you should know what I mean.

 Both CPA Aust and ICCA are well recognised at home and abroad & both possess reciprocity with AICPA. Both institutes are recognised by ICAEW & HKICPA.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 14:49

Living in the past

I believe the general public did view ACCA as the premier qualification 10-20 years ago but not any more. Allowing us to use the term charterted makes no difference to joe public.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 15:34

Who is living in the past?

20 years ago ACCA members who qualified in UK do not need to do further examination if they wish to join Hong Kong Institute of Certified Public Accountants (formerly known as Hong Kong Society of Accountants), and they can gain audit practice cert after gaining 30 months audit experience in any local CPA practice.

 But now ACCA members is required to : -  You hold a university degree accredited or recognised by the Institute;2.You have passed the 14-paper ACCA professional examination in Hong Kong or the U.K. including:Old ACCA syllabus offered before December 2007 dietNew ACCA syllabus effective from December 2007 dietiPaper 2.2 (HKG) – Corporate and Business Law (Hong Kong)F4 (HKG) – Corporate and Business Law (Hong Kong)iiPaper 2.3 (HKG) – Business Taxation (Hong Kong)F6 (HKG) Taxation (Hong Kong)iiiPaper 3.1 – Audit and Assurance ServicesP7 – Advanced Audit and AssuranceivPaper 3.2 (HKG) – Advanced Taxation (Hong Kong)P6 (HKG) – Advanced Taxation (Hong Kong)vPaper 3.7 – Strategic Financial ManagementP4 – Advanced Financial Management3.You have completed and passed the workshops of any one of the four modules of the Institute’s CPA Qualification Programme (QP);4.You have passed the Final Examination (FE) of the Institute’s QP;5.You have passed the Institute’s aptitude tests on Hong Kong law and taxation or the ACCA Hong Kong law and taxation variant papers mentioned above;26.You have at least three years of practical experience in accountancy which has been gained under an Institute-authorised employer or supervisor; besides the fit and proper criteria. Before ACCA members can gain membership or audit practice right in HKICPA.   That in effect accounting graduates in Hong Kong could gain audit practising cert quicker than ACCA members. 

 

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By kssco
24th Feb 2010 16:26

Get to the point!

All very interesting.  I am FCA,FCCA and CTA, so I have views and experience on all these bodies.  There are advantages in belonging to any or all of them.  None of them is perfect in terms of governance, but I would not worry too much about this.  ICAEW is still much more rooted in the UK than ACCA.  The original questioner should realise that if he moves to ICAEW, he will have to pay two subscriptions and two practising certificate fees, otherwise resign from ACCA.  ICAEW brought in the "Pathways" scheme for rapid entry to members of other CCAB bodies and I would recommend it.  ICAEW is much more responsive nowadays to matters concerning practice members, particularly those in small firms.

 

The ICAEW District and Area Society network is much better developed than the ACCA equivalent and joining one of these bodies gives access to good CPD and networking opportunities.

 

By the way, is it just one "Anonymous" or is it a whole clan of you?

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 16:38

ICAEW is more helpful for small Public Practice

I know ICAEW is in the process of building a strong branch network in the SE Asia too.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2010 17:37

Don't understand why Allen Blewitt signed such agreement?

I don’t know why Allen Blewitt struck such humiliating ARA (Agreement for Recognition Arrangement) deal with HKICPA.   It is in fact one-way recognition where no condition is imposed on HKICPA members to gain membership in ACCA but not the other way round.   You may say that those HKICPA QP graduates would join ICAEW instead if ACCA rejects membership admission.  But it gives an impression that ACCA is of lower standards then HKICPA for such unequal mutual recognition agreement.

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
25th Feb 2010 18:49

@ David Melia

First off, I was born about 30 years before the young'n @ MUFC so I'm THE Paul Scholes and he's the imposter (although I'd change places with him tomorrow!).

Just to say it's interesting to hear your experience of ACCA's & ICAEW's complaints procedures.  We started 2 complaints at around the same time in 2007 one to each body (different clients) the ICAEW's one was handled excellently and in about a year my client received over £2K compensation from the ACA firm (known here as Roy Rogers & Co).

The other is still ongoing and the ACCA's average response time to "the next stage" is 4 - 6 months, absolutely hopeless.

On balance it is Frying Pan & Fire, stick with the devil you know

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By The Minion
26th Feb 2010 09:13

Hello Fellow Human

At last Mr Scholes another person who uses a real name!

I agree entirely someone could easily find that the move has only increased your costs with no added benefit.

Ultimately it is a question of what does the client or potential client perceive as a benefit or otherwise. Looking at it from a purely financial point of view which choice would a client make when told that money laundering rules mean that ACA/ACCA etc are not required to be governed by HMRC but non members/non affiliates are.

We dont rely on any institute or association to develop our business, it is there as a back up to the proposal we give to the client. This is in the same way that we offer clients fee protection insurance, some clients insist on it others dont feel it is necessary but it is there as part of the overall offering.

 

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By User deleted
27th Feb 2010 09:34

ACCA is over in Hong Kong & China

ACCA is already dead as regard student recruitment in Hong Kong & China.

CPA Australia and ICAEW both have a strong branch network in Hong Kong. The first choice of accountancy students in Hong Kong is HKICPA, then follow by CPA Australia, AICPA and NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants. All these bodies won’t have residency requirement/belong to the GAA family. http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/154708/icaew_ga/en/Members/Members_worldwide/North_East_Asia/Office_and_ICAEW_staff_in_Hong_Kong http://www.cpaonline-au.com.hk/

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By User deleted
27th Feb 2010 09:35

ACCA is over in Hong Kong & China

ACCA is already dead as regard student recruitment in Hong Kong & China.

CPA Australia and ICAEW both have a strong branch network in Hong Kong. The first choice of accountancy students in Hong Kong is HKICPA, then follow by CPA Australia, AICPA and NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants. All these bodies won’t have residency requirement/belong to the GAA family. http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/154708/icaew_ga/en/Members/Members_worldwide/North_East_Asia/Office_and_ICAEW_staff_in_Hong_Kong http://www.cpaonline-au.com.hk/

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By User deleted
27th Feb 2010 21:42

ACCA is game over in Hong Kong & China

ACCA is effectively dead as regard student recruitment in Hong Kong & China.

http://www.cpaonline-au.com.hk/ CPA Australia and ICAEW both have a strong branch network in Hong Kong. The first choice of accountancy students in Hong Kong is HKICPA, then follow by CPA Australia, AICPA and NZ Institute of Chartered Accountants. All these bodies won’t have residency requirement/belong to the GAA family. http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/route/154708/icaew_ga/en/Members/Members_worldwide/North_East_Asia/Office_and_ICAEW_staff_in_Hong_Kong

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By User deleted
15th Mar 2010 15:27

I have mde the move from ACCA to ICAEW

I have made the move from ACCA to ICAEW. I have had no issued with ACCA for the last 14 years of membership but then I have not had much contact with them.

I will not go into boring details but when I was applying for a practising certificate 2 years ago, ACCA were terrible in the assistance provided and frankly gave me a lot of misleading information. I was not treated like a member that they are there to help and support. This is not something you expect from a professional body. As all of my partners are ICAEW members, I decided to join the ICAEW through the pathways scheme as I would prefer to be regulated by a professional body that cares about its members and the difference in help and support was amazing.

I must stress that ACCA's quality of customer care does not in any way reflect the quality of its members as I know many ACCA members that are brilliant accountants, auditors, tax consultants, etc. I also know many ACCA and ICAEW members that, in my opinion, are not up to the standards expected from a professional body.

Therefore the main difference between the 2 competing bodies is the quality of care and support that members in practice receive. Members that are not in practice do not generally have much contact with the professional body and therefore it should not matter which body they are a member of.

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By User deleted
15th Mar 2010 15:59

Easy money from abroad
You know ACCA does not want to issue PC to members causing regulatory issues for the Association.   They are more willing to grab easy money from abroad.

-- Thanks

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