We still have a week to go to the 31 Jan deadline. According to my client list, I still have 15 o/s returns. I realistically expect to file a further 7 on time (returns that have been completed and sent for signing).
That leaves 8, a couple of which I know will not have a tax liability.
I have made reasonable attempts to get in touch, outline the deadlines, penalties, surcharges, etc.. As far as I am concerned, I have done my bit.
The question is: have I got the right attitude?
After the experience of last year, I put serious hours in in Nov & Dec so I didn't have accounts to do in Jan as well as tax returns. So here I am in January, a week to go, 8 returns that I couldn't care less if they got filed or not, going home at 5.00 and not working on an evening, and yet see regular comments on here about 'burning the midnight oil', and am no longer sure whether I should feel guilty or not.
BTW, 3 of the stragglers are on stop as their account is overdue.
ps I am not posting this to sound smug, I just want to know whether my perspective is right.
Any comments appreciated.
Anon
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No guarantee for returns where information on 31.01
I've had two today. Went to the tax office this morning (takes at least 45 minutes each way) with all the stragglers. Then after lunch one produces bank statements and another came at 4:55 with his P11D. The P11D is being posted by him - but the other one I've refused to do. I was up until 3am and slept only for 3 1/2 hours before I got up again to ensure everything was straight. There's no way I'm feeling guilty for those who call at the last minute. I doubt I'd get it right this tired anyway. Tomorrow I'm not working (except for a few bills).
I don't believe it ..
Client finally supplied his receipts at 18.00 last night. I've slogged on them all day, manually completed his tax return because the site is down and rung him to ask him to come and sign it. Explained that I'll post it off tonight because its a 60 mile round trip to the tax office but no guarantee that it will make the deadline.
His response - I can't keep running round like this I'm just going swimming now. I'm afraid I was a little assertive with him at that point.. I wish I had time to go swimming. This evening is taken up with my PAYE clients that I should have done today .. GRRRR.
I agree, you've done enough
I am in the same position as you Anon, and I don't feel guilty at all. I have 4 returns with clients for signature (they are all faxing back the authorisation to file online today) and one outstanding to do, client is coming in tomorrow morning!
So today I'm having a nice quiet day!
I still have about 10 clients that won't get filed on time. They have had plenty of reminders and most have them have been spoken to by phone this month, so if they haven't got the information to me, I don't think that's my fault. I stopped chasing a week ago.
And thanks to the joys of online filing, I'm not even going to the tax office tomorrow!
To be honest
I'm starting to get a bit bored!!!
Two of the stragglers have been in touch this week. Yesterday, husband of taxpayer dropped her P45 & P60 off, she would call this morning with my payment.
Guess who didn't turn up?
But she will get a refund, so no penalty.
Another one rang this afternoon, he's been 'busy', and will pop in on Friday! Luckily - again - he's on PAYE and making a mileage claim, so again no penalty.
But the nice thing is (and I don't want to sound smug because I'm not trying to) for the past two weeks, there's only been one set of accounts I've been working on in the evenings - mine! Company y/e 31.12.07.
You're right not to feel guilty
You've reminded them and chased them, you shouldn't have to do any more.
I had a phone call from a prospective new client a week ago, saying all very simple, self employed, low income in 06/07 but needs tax return doing.
Fine, I say and arrange an evening appointment to see him a couple of nights ago (arranged babysitter as husband was out etc).
I got there, he hadn't sacked the old accountant, didn't have full records, suggested we file under his HMRC logon and then do formalities later, and expected me to agree the accounts and file the return while I was there at the initial meeting. (Not to mention the recently bankrupt wife etc and the rest of the info that was divulged on the evening...)
The whole thing wasn't right and I'm pleased to say I said I wasn't comfortable doing it and suggested he got the current accountant to do it and get back to me in a few months if he still wanted to do business locally. (Other accountant was in London).
First time I've turned down a job as a relatively new practice, blinking annoying as I thought it'd be an easy few hundred quid but never mind.
Anyway, I didn't feel guilty just relieved I didn't have to wade through the mess.
Fee quotes
For habitually late providors of information I give fee quotes which for example might be :-
"If complete information is provided by - The fee will be"
31 July - £300
31 August - £350
30 September - £400
31 October - £450
30 November - £500
31 December - £550
15 January - £600
later than 15 January - fee negotiable and no gurarantee of meeting deadline.
Those who stick with me either provide information on time or pay for the privelege of causing me to have too much work in December - January.
This is NOT a "one-size fit's all" solution as there are clients who cannot give me the books early as the established ground rules are that a new year's books cannot be received until the earlier year is paid for. There are sometimes genuine hardship cases who need and deserve flexibility.
Mark - Fee quotes
I've thought about this, but could foresee too many arguments ensuing about what constitutes 'bring in the records'. For instance, if there are a few bank statements missing, which are brought in when requested a couple of months later, what fee is charged? Where do you draw the line?
Sometimes a reason
I have a client who will probably be late again and I have to chase and chase and chase. For him I agree with the comments.
But as a lot of my clients have been new this year (just having started out) they've joined me after your dates for getting these things done. One has come to me because they're fed up their existing advisers haven't done anything having had the records 2-3 months. So yes I am burning the midnight oil. And if some advisers weren't so unbelievably slow in passing over handover information it wouldn't have been so bad. The client always paid straight away on the bill - I can see that from his records, so that wasn't the problem. The client commented - well I realised they were cr** and that's why I've come to you.
Lack of guilt
That's all I aspire to. We set down dates by which we'll guarantee getting the Return in on time and the fact that I have 15% of mine still to be done doesn't lose me any sleep. All I want to be sure of is that if anyone does miss out, it's the pillock who turns up today with a plastic bag worth of crap.
You have clients that listen - I don't. Revenue fines, penal rates of bills from us - nothing appears to work as a universal panacea. A number of different things work, but nothing's a guarantee, every strategy is about 50% effective - you just need a number of strategies and a thick skin.
Yes I am burning midnight oil, but that's because I know I'm simply trading time spent working hard now for time doing what I want to do in the next 3-4 months.
Thanks for the comments
It's nice to see I'm not entirely alone in my thinking.
Andy, don't worry, I've started taking the "sack 'em" approach - but doing it in the last two weeks of January would be kicking a man whilst he's down.
My business is growing and like Rachel, I've taken on a few clients throughout the year, but on the whole, my fees do increase for people leaving it until December/January.
Flexibility
When I quote fees I say :-
"If complete information is provided by - The fee will be"
In deserving cases I allow a degree of flexibility.
The incremental fee does work either by increasing fee income or by getting books in earlier.
Some ungrateful clients might be lost, but then I'm not prepared to work "cheap" beyond midnight in January and the loss of such clients is not a problem.
Being flexible and taking account of the client's unavoidable problems is important - as an example a partnership that I quoted fees to on an incremental basis hasn't paid last year's fee (£400) and my incremental fee said £700 for receiving the books this month. I will probably NOT enforce the full quoted £700 fee since :-
1. I've acted for one of the partner's family members for over 25 years and not had problems in the past
2. There are special issues in this case ( "reasonable / understandable excuse" in my eyes [but not HMRC's!] ) such as one of the two business partners has gone through marital difficulties disrupting the administration of the partnership. However, the one rule I won't bend is the "pay last year's fee before I do this years accounts" one.
I'd go a bit further . . . .
Sack them!
Who wants to do business with people like that?
You should care about their accounts and tax, but you shouldn't care more than they do.
Horses and water
There are those clients and people generally who cannot take responsibility for their affairs. You cannot do more so why worry
Relax
Yes I agree
I think you've done all you can - people are burning the midnght oil because they've received tax returns. I have received a couple of returns which I'll move heaven and earth to complete before the deadline. I've still got 5 outstanding now - I've written, phoned and emailed to drag people in since the end of October. One the client was due to attend an appointment last night at 18.00, a time that was suitable for him. He didn't turn up and wasn't answering his phone - I'm not ringing him again. I rang one client the other day and was told to call him back in two weeks! The others seem to have put their heads in the sand and keep promising to get their info together. I've even offered to collect from them. There is no helping some people I don't feel guilty now so be it - I'm their accountant and not their mothers.