Offered ACCA Training at a one-partner firm? Career suicide?

Offered ACCA Training at a one-partner firm?...

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Currently unemployed and my fathers accountant has offered me a chance to train at his firm. Salary is poor and he pays 50% of my course fees.
Any Advice?

I'm an accountany graduate with experience in industry.

What sort of questions should i ask him before i accept such an offer....training wise etc...

I am a bit wary, as my father does not think highly of him...
Anna

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By AnonymousUser
28th Feb 2006 17:08

Career Suicide is...
... negotiating benefits and pay on your first job.

Negotiating pay is the last thing one does in a series of job interviews, only after proving you are the very best possible candidate to your new employer. This is because you can command more money the more important you will be to the company. Negotiate early and you shoot yourself in the foot with a lower salary than you deserve.

However, as a rookie, you are so disposable you might as well be Kleenex. There are an awful lot of people out there who will work for free as an intern to get their foot in the door. This guy's actually going to pay you, plus give you benefits. So no, don't negotiate your salary or benefits at this stage in your career. You do ask for an employment agreement that spells out your obligations to your employer and your employer's obligations to you, so that you don't screw up (i.e., if you have to be there every day at 9:00, you'd best show up at 8:50, not 9:00 and certainly not 9:01).

Take the pay, show your worth, then do what the rest of us do after we've become indispensable, ask for your well-deserved raise. Don't ask for it before you've made yourself essential to him, or you're less likely to get it. If you don't get it, say thanks, hunker down and look busy while hunting for another job.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2006 14:28

Seems dubious!
Hi Anna,

I would be dubious to this guys offer to you. The main reason for stating this is that he only offers to pay 50% of your course fees. I have been in practise for nearly six starting as a junior in a similar position to you and have recently qualified.

Whilst i was training i regularly explored other jobs to ensure my salary and training package was competitive and not once did i come accross a practise which would not pay 100% of the course fees.

With this guy he is obviously very greedy and profit driven with very little consideration for his staff. The reason salary's are so low while training is the investment cost of providing the training together with the lost charegable time. If he is not offering a full study package you should be seeking a decent wage!

I would seriously consider getting in touch with a specialist accountancy recruitment consultant if you know this is the route to take. They will seek out suitable training positions. Or even do the work yourself the acca website has numerous positions available.

Hope this is of help
Chris

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By AnonymousUser
24th Feb 2006 10:49

Anything to do with getting
qualified is good. So courses paid for, day release, time off for exams etc. I'm not sure what firms offer these days, but for each exam that you take, I'd push for a minimum of three days' revision plus a day for the exam.

I doubt most firms offer pay rises following exam success. That was never the case in my part of the country. After giving the current firm a chance to catch my salary up to market levels, I more often than not had to move.

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2006 20:53

Spoke to his ex-trainee
He was not very forthcoming at all, and i think he was a bit miffed i brought my potential employer up.

He has set up his own practice now and is competition with my dads accountant for new clients...so there is bad blood there.

I forgot to mention that when my potential employer met with me i was studying CIMA as i was in industry. Therefore i am changing to ACCA, a decision that took a lot of thought.

I would rather train in a small practice rather than cowtow to the recruitment consultants pushing me into roles that have nothing to do with CIMA.

I have wasted the best part of two years since graduation just moving between jobs.....i really need some grounding and direction and focus.

Once qualified, i can decided then what i want, right now i am just in limbo......

Just another over-qualified graduate with high hopes and dreams (which i still have btw!)

What sort of support should i ask for?
- revision courses
- Time of for revision
- What increments my pay increases after passing exams.

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By Richardrussell
23rd Feb 2006 21:05

Of the options you've got,
it's probably the best (unless a plum job comes out of the mist). If I was in your position, knowing what I know now, I would give it a go. It would give you experience, help you with your qualifications, and keep your options open (you want to resist being a temp for too long, and avoid being sidelined into any old job). OK, the salary probably will be poor, but (as I've always believed) it is an investment for the future. I am sure you will get lots of good experience (and I would ask for it, make sure you get exposure to lots of good things that you can call on in the future), and if the place is too bad, you at least have the option of moving from a job, which is a lot better than moving without a job, as I'm sure you're finding.

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By User deleted
24th Feb 2006 10:14

Well i rang him up today, and well..
he said nothing has changed at the firm regarding vacancies, and he has not forgot about me and will let me know...

This is painful....

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By AnonymousUser
23rd Feb 2006 20:29

Go for it!
With few junior jobs around when I was around 19, I ended up in a fairly unpleasant firm. It was a real 'Scrooge and Marley' type place but for all of its faults, the one thing it helped me achieve was getting on the road to qualification! I was also lucky in having a superb manager at that place, that gave me a good start in accounts prep and tax.

One of the nice things about getting a few papers under your belt, and some experience, is that you don't necessarily need to stay in one place through to qualification.

As for getting stuck in practice - not so! At a later firm in my career, a workmate of mine qualified and moved into a big four, so it can be done. I've had many colleagues who move to industry and back again, and I've branched out into college lecturing! The nice thing of experience of a mixed experience is that you can return to either should you wish.

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By User deleted
22nd Feb 2006 21:59

ACCA
First of all to check the practice is an ACCA approved training office ask the ACCA or have a look on their website.

As regards 'suicide of your career' - that depends on what you want to do.

If you would like a career as a general practitioner it may be the best move you could make. You will be able to get ACCA qualified, get a practising certificate, and should get super exposure to the real work of a general practitioner with lots of client contact.

If you want a career in industry or with a Big 4/mid tier firm etc then in my opinion it would be a very bad move.

Why does your Father think poorly of him - is this a factor you need to consider?

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By Ken Howard
23rd Feb 2006 10:37

Take it!
At your age, you are rapidly running out of opportunities. Firms, large and small, are more likely to be looking out for trainees straight from School or University as that is who they are accustomed to taking on in a training role.

From your comments, you clearly have a "downer" on the practice so you do need to change to a positive attitude if you are seriously considering taking the job, otherwise your pessimism of it will be self petpetuating.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with starting in a small practice. The experience of doing "small" incomplete jobs will stand you in good stead for the future. It may not be exciting, but it is a good solid foundation.

It never ceases to amaze me how many senior finance professionals in industry and public sector have so little grasp of the basics. After all, some of the high profile company frauds and collapses have centred around simple things such as no-one bothering to balance the bank account!

I had ten years in small practice and then moved into industry at board level. I only got the job because they were clients and had grown from 10 staff to 200 staff in five years and I had become very involved with them. The transition was very simple indeed. All I lacked was the "corporate" way of life - the back-stabbing, the boot-licking, the PC rubbish etc. I helped prepare the company for sale to an international firm and then left to return to practice. Now I have my own "one man" firm which is very successful and no doubt prospective trainess would look down on my firm as being too small based on staff numbers, premises, and their perception of my clients, but they don't see the true picture of the majority of clients being very wealthy, clients dispersed across the country, and high client retention rate.

I would seriously recommend that you adopt an open mind - talk to the accountant in depth yourself to find out what the practice really is like. I suspect that other staff have left simply due to their perception of poor pay or lack of a social life with colleagues if there are few/no other staff.

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By User deleted
22nd Feb 2006 20:50

ACCA Approved Training Practice?
He also mentions he is an ACCA Approved Training Practice. How can i check this?

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By User deleted
23rd Feb 2006 01:53

His clients and the practical experience
His clients all seem to be local shopkeepers and the like, no large organisations it seems.
Plus i am wary of the practical experience i might recieve in such a place. I mean my dad is one of his clients, and well my father tells me his client base is nothing to shout about.

Tough decision.....plus his history with "trainees" seems a bit poor. I will be speaking to one of his ex-trainees to see why he left.

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