Online filing with no UTR

No.

In a few more, if HMRC have not required a return then the filing date moves on to 3 months from when they do

Also if the client doesn't owe any tax there is no penalty for filing after 31st Jan -  so no pressure

"Also if the client doesn't owe any tax there is no penalty for filing after 31st Jan -  so no pressure"

That may change any time (I doubt by 31/01/11) - but the three months rule still applies.

I think this year if there is nil liability and you file after 31 jan even than there would be late fling penalty? am i right?

The law has been passed but it requires a statutory instrument to put it into effect. I would expect the SI around 5/6 April 2011.

This question cropped up last year too, and prompted Rebecca Benneyworth to write A guide to your options if the client didn't have a UTR. 

Hope this helps.

I sent a 64-8 to Longbenton in February 2010 with a covering letter re a client on PAYE who had had Income from Property for 4 years (at a loss each year).  After a long period with no reply I 'phoned the Agents helpline only to be told there was no trace.  I sent the client a further 64-8 and on receipt sent it to HMRC once more on 5 September, I received an answer dated 16th November (10 weeks to answer ???)saying that an SA1 was needed.  Today I sent off 1 x signed SA1 and 4 years' Returns manually as I would never get the UTR in time for the 31st January if I had to wait yet another 10 weeks for them to either lose it or answer it.  Basically I have been trying to get this UTR for 11 months.  A have another client with Income from Property and HMRC have virtually refused to issue a UTR.  I have an HMRC  letter stating that they dont need an SA1 and that they would send the UTR but that was May.  I have also spoken to the Agents helpline twice since to no avail, so another manual Return for 2010 will be winging it way to HMRC.  Here's another good one - although they used the 64-8 and I am listed as the agent acting they sent the 64-8 back to me and did not keep it.  Fings aint what they used to be when I was wiv the Revenue.

TheAncientOne

I'm not sure this will help abut the following happened last week

 I was given a UTR by a new client, which didn't seem right (purely instinctive).So wishing to adopt the correct procedure I contacted the agents line and gave them the NI number, passed the usual security checks and asked that they relate the UTR to the NI no ."we cannot do that but will give the information to the client" I said I couldn't be bothered and would send the return anyway and queried what would then happen

" We would identify the correct UTR from the NI number and insert that on the return information" was the reply

Does that mean that if you a correct NI number you can use any sequence of 10 numbers to make up a UTR and be able to submit the return on line without demur?

Very interesting

clearly their request for a utr in november was invalid in some way so HMRCy have binned it, so apply again each week until it arrives.

ALSO your client can call them and ask if it exists.

if they say yes, then tell them to check address as it has probably gone to wrong mansion.

 You get any rubbish advise from HMRC. Often nothing related to Law or Practice manuals but there you have it.

I have had it HMRC had an UTR number just never bothered to tell anyone. Only by luck did I manage to get it. After the usual run around the telephone numbers and "we do not deal with this" (despite being given the number by the previous HMRC contact!)

Now have a client who cannot get a VAT no. (£2.5 Mill T/O) Two registrations send in. First one binned, 2nd one "we are busy with it" - for 8 weeks now.

HMRC is a disaster administratively which makes it hard for agents and taxpayers. It need not be. Other jurisdictions can get it right so why not HMRC?

Is slow processing of the UTR a bigger problem than HMRC acknowledge or is the problem limited to a few cases? Notification of chargeability before 5 October is the answer HMRC will use but this is not an excuse for not issuing a UTR in a reasonable time scale. If a request for a UTR was sent in November or December I would suggest that 30 days is a reasonable time scale and the UTR should be available by 31 January.

There are many issues around UTRs.

I seem to average about 1 client every year who has TWO UTRs; often this seems to be when different elements of the client's affairs are handled by different HMRC centres. Many happy times have been spent chatting to various HMRC staff about the difficulties this creates. One service office was adament that it was totally impossible for one person to have two UTRs (but eventually appologised when confronted with the evidence!)

Getting UTR for a person who needs to do a Return for a 1-off Capital Gain seems next to impossible. People who rent out 1 property & have a job also seem to present HMRC with a lot of problems, too.

It seems to me that HMRC don't have enough staff in the correct places & they have silly targets for work/hr to reach so any anomalous situations never get dealt with.