p11d penalty

p11d penalty

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Hi
If a P11d was late, would the penalty be limited to the tax due (like with self-assessment), or is it a penalty for late return and that is it?
Thanks lots.

Paul

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By neiltonks
04th Jan 2006 08:58

Penalties
The penalties for late submission can be quite high, depending on the length of time and the number of forms involved.

According to HMRC booklet 480:

"A person who fails to make a return on form P11D within the appropriate time limit may incur a penalty not exceeding £300 with a further penalty not exceeding £60 a day if the failure continues."

Note these are maximum penalties, and are per form not per PAYE scheme. The actual penalty imposed is decided by HMRC in each case.

Neil.

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By User deleted
04th Jan 2006 08:54

No !
Unfortunately, unlike a late SA return for Income Tax, there is, to my knowledge, no specific mitigation of penalty for a late P11D.

This year, the one late P11D notice I've seen, was issued several months after the P11D was late, thus increasing the penalty yield for IR ! ie. £100 per month penalty not issued until after 4 months late so P11D penalty £400, would have been £100 if penalty notice issued August rather than November. However, (big laugh) IR will not get a penny of the penalty in this instance as company struck off ! PS. This refers to a former client, not a current one.

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David Winch
By David Winch
04th Jan 2006 09:43

P11D late filing penalties

The late filing penalties automatically imposed on employers under Regulation 81(2) Social Security (Contributions) Regulations 2001 are £100 per month per 50 employees (i.e. up to 50 employees - penalty £100 per month; 51-100 employees - penalty £200 per month; and so on).

These penalties are per PAYE scheme (i.e. per employer) and not per P11D form.

A full month penalty is charged for each full month late, plus a further one month for any part month. So where an employer submits the P11Ds on, say 28 August, there is a two month penalty (due date is 6 July). However no penalty is charged where the P11Ds are received by 19 July.

However this penalty cannot exceed the class 1A NIC due for the year. Where the class 1A NIC due for the year is less than £100 (for the employer) no penalty will be charged.

Where no P11Ds are received the first penalty notice is sent out in November, showing a 4 month penalty. Another is sent in March showing 8 months penalty. The final one is sent in July showing 12 months penalty.

If the P11D forms are over 12 months late different rules apply.

See notes on the HMR&C website.

David

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David Winch
By David Winch
04th Jan 2006 18:27

Different penalties relating to late P11D forms

There are two different types of penalties which can be imposed for late P11D forms.

One penalty is imposed automatically, calculated based on the number of employees and the number of months late, and can be restricted by reference to the class 1A NIC liability. This is the one under Regulation 81(2) Social Security (Contributions) Regulations 2001.

The other is not charged automatically, is calculated per P11D rather than per employer, and cannot be charged at all if the P11Ds are submitted before the penalty is issued. This is the one under s 98 TMA 1970.

The automatic one is much more common and is, I think, the one that this questioner is referring to.

David

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By tomtrainer
04th Jan 2006 17:45

Previous thread on this issue
Says "Late P11D penalties are covered by s.98 TMA, i.e. initial £300 + £60 per day thereafter. Where's the good news? OK, HMIT has to go to the General Commissioners (quite rare) and cannot apply the penalty once the error is rectified - once they are in."

By the way, how do I hide that URL behind some text?

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David Winch
By David Winch
04th Jan 2006 18:21

Response to Tom

Tom

If you replace the [ square ] brackets with < angle > brackets in:-

See [A HREF="https://www.accountingweb.co.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=134875&d=101&datefor..."]previous thread on this topic[/A].

You get:-

See previous thread on this topic.

In practice an easy way to do this on AWEB is to cut and paste the link in (as you did in your original post) then after posting, go back in to edit your post and overwrite the link with your preferred text (without changing the content which the site has automatically placed in angle brackets).

David

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By tomtrainer
06th Jan 2006 09:43

David Winch
Thanks David

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