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Thank you for all your help but Tosie has made the point that I shouldn't have posted, even though I did not reveal specifics about any client I am now concerned about comeback on myself.

Thank you everyone.

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By johngroganjga
16th Apr 2014 15:28

Why are you worrying about this?  If anyone is worried it should be your client's "employer".

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Kirkers
17th Apr 2014 09:56

My employer has passed the accounts job to me to do. I've just done my notes for my boss to read and thought about including a paragraph about it. If it turns out that our client's "employer" is doing something wrong, surely we should at least address our client about it if we have suspicions of this nature?

Maybe I'm wrong but I've not been doing accounts for long so thought I'd verify with the more knowledgeable.

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Replying to bernard michael:
By Howard Marks
16th Apr 2014 15:39

Employment status

Kirkers wrote:

My employer has passed the accounts job to me to do. I've just done my notes for my boss to read and thought about including a paragraph about it. If it turns out that our client's "employer" is doing something wrong, surely we should have at least addressed our client about it if we had suspicions of this nature?

Maybe I'm wrong but I've not been doing accounts for long so thought I'd verify with the more knowledgeable.

 

Your client is doing as he should, complying with HMRC and paying any tax due.  If the employer in question ever gets hit with an employment status enquiry it'll be their problem, not your clients.

 

It's great that you're giving your client the heads up as they should certainly be aware of the pitfalls of being 'forced' into self-employment (NMW, benefits etc) but I wouldn't worry about it much more than that.

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Replying to carnmores:
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By Kirkers
16th Apr 2014 15:41

Cheers

Platform wrote:

Kirkers wrote:

My employer has passed the accounts job to me to do. I've just done my notes for my boss to read and thought about including a paragraph about it. If it turns out that our client's "employer" is doing something wrong, surely we should have at least addressed our client about it if we had suspicions of this nature?

Maybe I'm wrong but I've not been doing accounts for long so thought I'd verify with the more knowledgeable.

 

Your client is doing as he should, complying with HMRC and paying any tax due.  If the employer in question ever gets hit with an employment status enquiry it'll be their problem, not your clients.

 

It's great that you're giving your client the heads up as they should certainly be aware of the pitfalls of being 'forced' into self-employment (NMW, benefits etc) but I wouldn't worry about it much more than that.


Thank you @Platform. That was to be my next question - whether there would be any backlash on our client if it turns out the company should have made him an employee. I appreciate your response.

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By Steve Kesby
16th Apr 2014 15:32

There is no 2-year rule

Whether somebody is employed or self-employed is a question of fact. The facts would mean that the individual has been either employed or self-employed throughout.

Is there an unfettered right to send a substitute driver? See ESM7210.

EDIT: @ John. You mean engager. There's no evidence either way that the client's engager is employer or contractor.

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Replying to adam.arca:
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By Kirkers
16th Apr 2014 15:37

Thank you Steve

Steve Kesby wrote:

Whether somebody is employed or self-employed is a question of fact. The facts would mean that the individual has been either employed or self-employed throughout.

Is there an unfettered right to send a substitute driver? See ESM7210.

EDIT: @ John. You mean engager. There's no evidence either way that the client's engager is employer or contractor.

IF he had a substitute driver I imagine he could send one, however he has no employees. Literally just a man with his van.

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Replying to Tornado:
RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Apr 2014 15:43

Two points

Kirkers wrote:

Steve Kesby wrote:

Whether somebody is employed or self-employed is a question of fact. The facts would mean that the individual has been either employed or self-employed throughout.

Is there an unfettered right to send a substitute driver? See ESM7210.

EDIT: @ John. You mean engager. There's no evidence either way that the client's engager is employer or contractor.

IF he had a substitute driver I imagine he could send one, however he has no employees. Literally just a man with his van.

1. He could hire a subcontractor. He doesn't need employees.

2. Don't imagine.  Asking for trouble.  Find out.

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Replying to adam.arca:
By johngroganjga
16th Apr 2014 15:38

Inverted commas

Steve Kesby wrote:

EDIT: @ John. You mean engager. There's no evidence either way that the client's engager is employer or contractor.

Steve I think you missed my inverted commas, meaning of course "if he is one".

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RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Apr 2014 15:32

Temporary Workplace

Are you confusing this with the question of whether this has become a permanent workplace ?

Aside from that, you certainly need to establish whether a contract is in place and what it says. It seems to me that, without one, there could be some danger that the worker is recalassified as employed.

There's insufficient information to go further.

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Replying to kevinringer:
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By Kirkers
16th Apr 2014 15:34

Thank you

lionofludesch wrote:

Are you confusing this with the question of whether this has become a permanent workplace ?

Aside from that, you certainly need to establish whether a contract is in place and what it says. It seems to me that, without one, there could be some danger that the worker is recalassified as employed.

There's insufficient information to go further.

 

Thank you, you're probably right about confusing it all. I'm new to accounts.
I wasn't sure if this is something as a firm of accountants we should mention to the client etc.

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By Kirkers
16th Apr 2014 15:45

@Lionofludesch - thanks again for your response. I appreciate that we could ask the client for a copy of the contract to see what's what.

Is this something you'd recommend doing or should I leave well alone with it and if the company get in 'trouble' (for lack of a better word) then that's their problem?

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By Kirkers
16th Apr 2014 15:48

To reiterate, I am only concerned with any issues our client may have if this goes sour and the company haven't assessed his employment status properly. We act only for him and not the company he "works" for. If the responsibility is soley on the company that's fine.

Thank you all

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RLI
By lionofludesch
16th Apr 2014 17:09

Reclassification

All the risk of a reclassification is with the employer (as he would become).

However, if you ask, I bet the subcontractor will be able to produce a contract that will answer all your questions.

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By Tosie
17th Apr 2014 08:41

Ask your boss

When I employed staff I would have been concerned had they had to resort to asking questions on a public forum rather than asking me.

I hope for your sake that your boss does not read this site as they may not be too happy with you.

 

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Replying to ggeoff:
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By Kirkers
17th Apr 2014 09:18

Why?

Tosie wrote:

When I employed staff I would have been concerned had they had to resort to asking questions on a public forum rather than asking me.

I hope for your sake that your boss does not read this site as they may not be too happy with you.

 


Why?

It's the Easter half term, he's taken it off as his kids are off school.

 

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