Can I invoice HMRC?

Can I invoice HMRC?

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In April 2011 we submitted the P35 for a client. In October 2011 with no explanation HMRC penalised the client for £400 for non-submission of that P35. We appealed and our appeal was upheld.

On 10 April 2012 we submitted the 2012 P35 for the same company. We received an accepance email from HMRC on 12 April 2012. Today we have received a penalty notice for the non-submission of the 2012 P35!

We have appealed yet again, sending them our payroll system report on the submission and a copy of the HMRC's email accepting that submission. We will wait to hear from them.

My client is obviously very unhappy and has claimed that we have failed him, although we have supplied him with copies of all documentation - we may now lose him as a client. We cannot charge him for work done by ourselves in dealing with errors made by HMRC.

So, can I invoice them for the work involved, and, if necessay, for loss of earnings if the client now leaves?

Has anyone any experience in this matter - were you successful?

I Have already lodged official complaints with regard to the computer system 'losing' two of my clients, and difficulty in registereing CT clients with their system.

Replies (12)

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Quack
By Constantly Confused
02nd Oct 2012 11:30

I believe

The general rule with billing HMRC is they will only reimburse your client, so you have to raise a bill to the client, get paid, and only then will HMRC do anything.

Not done it in a few years though, perhaps that has changed.

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By sally1964
02nd Oct 2012 11:50

I believe

Agree with above - I have done it and HM have paid client.

 

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By ireallyshouldknowthisbut
02nd Oct 2012 15:29

.

Loss of client no.

Time to sort out HMRC's mess, yes if billed to the customer and they have paid.

The fact of their paying for your time should serve as a "I was right" to the client.

In terms of this happening twice, is there a "ghost" payroll knocking about?

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Time for change
By Time for change
02nd Oct 2012 22:10

The danger, as I am finding

is that HMRC may not totally reimburse your client, even though you believe that the charge is fair and reasonable.

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By David Frank Marshall
03rd Oct 2012 12:08

RECOVERY OF COSTS FROM HMRC

There's no reason why you should not recover your costs from HMRC once their error(s) have been admitted. However, it's necessary to invoice your client, and obtain payment from him, and then send the claim to HMRC, with the receipted invoice, and your client should be re-imbursed.

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By Mallock
03rd Oct 2012 12:18

Is it worth it?

I have had this conversation and lots of correspondence with HMRC many times and clients have been awarded compensation. However since HMRC don't live in the real world, their idea of compensation is £50 to £150 in most cases.

By the time I have explained all of this to the client, persuaded him to pay me (when he thinks he should be receiving proper compensation for his troubles), raised the fee and communicated with HMRC, I have usually wasted another £100 of time. It's simply not worth it in my experience.

The system need to be changed so that HMRC pay the resonable additional costs of client's accountants directly. 

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Time for change
By Time for change
03rd Oct 2012 12:23

Mallock hits the nail on the head

I've had a case with The Adjudicator's Office for exactly one year and, I'm sorry to say, the Adjudicator appears to have allowed HMRC to cherry pick which charges THEY consider are additional. I'm now asking the Parliamentary Ombudsman to consider taking the case. Oh and, by the way, I capped my charges over a year ago now.

HMRC seem to have taken inequity to a new level, in my view.

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By whiteandco
03rd Oct 2012 13:09

Devil's own job to get paid - but why spend time at all

I've succeeded once in getting payment (via the Client) from HMRC, but the time I spent having to justify my costs, submitting timesheets etc.etc. meant I lost in the end.

Regarding their penalties for non-submission of P35's - I have had exactly the same problem and an equally livid Client thinking I had failed.  All I did was to put a line through the penalty notice and return it with a copy of HMRC's confirmation of submission, with a large handwritten note to the effect of suggesting they look in their own system and to send an apology to my very upset Client and sent a copy to my Client.  HMRC have always been pretty quick at cancelling the penalty and has sent the requested apology.  I would never go anywhere near the Appeal system when I can so obviously prove they are at fault.  It is not for nothing I have earned the nickname "The Rottweiller".

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By Dick Lloyd
03rd Oct 2012 14:41

What if the company does their own payroll and submissions?

If a company does their own payroll and submissions, can they send a bill for costs to HMRC (in the same way that an accountant would).

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By pjlevi
03rd Oct 2012 14:06

Recovery of costs from HMRC

I had a case back in the late 1980s when acting for a charity on a pro bono basis relating to a deed of covenant repayment claim when we had reason to challenge by way of a Judicial Review the validity of an order by the General Commissioners to produce certain documents and information.  

The Solicitor of Inland Revenue did not wish to offer any defence, conceded our claim and asked us to withdraw the action for Judicial Review.  He offered to pay my costs, which I had never intended to charge to the Charity.  They comprised some £10 or so of swearing fees for the affidavits and many hours of my time preparing them and reading up on the procedure for a Judicial Review which I would have conducted as a litigant-in-person as an officer of the charity and a fee paid to the High Court for the Application.  They asked me to invoice them for my time and expenses, which I did, and I received a cheque for £800.  This was paid to me personally, although I subsequently set off my disbursements and donated the balance to the charity.

On that occasion there was no request for me to invoice the charity first or to be paid by them, but perhaps it was because they did not want the publicity of the Judicial Review coming to Court.

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By User deleted
03rd Oct 2012 15:10

Class action

"they did not want the publicity of the Judicial Review coming to Court"

Of course they didn't. But it's time one of these cases did make the headlines.

I had two £100 penalty notices in one year. One of them went as far as those horrible threatening letters which would make some people very upset. Just stiffened my resolve. Won both appeals - and I am an amateur.

Time for a class action against HMRC. Any lawyers specialising in class actions reading this thread? Should be possible to put several hundred cases together and provided that there is plenty of publicity in the early stages HMRC will get a strong message even if they pay to settle out of court on a "nil disclosure" basis.

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By User deleted
03rd Oct 2012 17:21

Just sent a snotty letter

I filed a nil P35 for a client and got the email confirmation, wrote to HMRC the same day asking them to cancel the PAYE scheme and confirming that the nil P35 had been filed, and got another email a month or so later confirming the nil P35 had been updated on their system. So received yesterday a penalty notice for £400. I did the inspector a nice snotty sarky letter enclosing copies of all 3 and a bill that I said my client had paid. If they reimburse him (to my address) I'll get him to write me a cheque in exchange. Luckily we're related!

But they should reimburse us directly because most (by far) clients wouldn't see why they had to fork out more particularly when they're on fixed fees. And it makes us look bad even though we're squeaky clean. If I get another one there will be a bigger bill sent to someone far higher up.

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