Have had a client with an English name who has changed to a muslim name. Does anyone think this is a concern and who if anyone should I notify. Is it something that the NCA should be notified of?
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The same as you would do if he previously had a muslim name (if there is such a broad thing) and changed it to an english name. (if there is such a broad thing)
So, HMRC and possibly change of name re directors etc at Companies house, if applicable.
Are you serious?
Thanks DJKL - I didn't mean in terms of Co Hse etc.
It's more are these things that the NCA need to know about.
He may have changed his name as a result of an entirely innocent conversion to Islam but even so, is this something that accountants now have a duty to report to the NCA, outside of the normal Money Laundering reporting responsibilities.
Are you serious?
Think about the political implications of what you are suggesting here.
.
When the IRA were busy bombing the UK, did we go around assuming all Catholics were terrorists?
It is quite common for people who are into carrying a prayer mat around to change their name.
Take Cat Stevens for example. or Yusaf Islam as he is now known. Not a terrorist.
Nor are most of the billion+ other muslims in the world.
If you have a suspicion
Thanks Red Leader - probably!
Thanks Portia - I haven't yet told him I am a Catholic which might make him issue a FATWA or something!
DJKL - I would love you to tell me of the political implications. In the end it might seem like a daft question that I have raised but in the end it is also possibly a valid question, as to what the government expects us to report, given the paranoid times we live in. What if he has actually been groomed and about to join IS?
If you have a particular suspicion report it, of course, follow the rules and guidance as laid down.
Insofar as I am aware there is no deemed / automatic heightening of suspicion/reporting requirement merely upon name change ,or a list of proscribed names that needs reviewed against triggering such a report; if there were such a law I suspect I would give up practice as I hope would most people; the next step, when societies have tended to differentiate on such a basis, has often been a lot of people wearing different armbands.
A client of mine changed his name by Deed Poll and gave me a copy of the document. HMRC couldn't/wouldn't understand and tried to give him a new UTR. It took many letters and phone calls to get the matter resolved.
By what method is your client changing his name??
Very concerning
I don't know why the other posters don't see this as a concern. If I was you I'd contact the client ASAP, apologise on behalf of the West for everything ever, and go into hiding with all your family and friends.
But first email all your normally-named clients and get them to get in touch with me to take over their affairs.
Beard
There is a man in my work has not shaved for a few days, I think he may be becoming a Muslim terrorist, what should I do?
I’d love to listen in on your client meetings … “on a scale of 1 to 10, how Muslim would say you were”?
If you haven’t realised, I think the general consensus is that your post is pretty ridiculous.
@Mwngiol – Muslim names are normal names. What makes you think they aren’t?
Not
Accountants sense of humour - you can't beat it - nights out with you lot must be [***] hilarious!!
as interesting as your nights out dressed in your all white robes.
Dilemma
There was a Pakistan cricketer who changed his name from Youssuf Youhana to Mohammad Youssuf. What would you do if he was your client? Do both names sound Muslim? Does one sound more Muslim than the other? Has he become more Muslim or less Muslim? Has he become more risky or less risky? If he then changed his name to Nigel, should you tell the authorities that he's now safe and there's no need to monitor his communications?
It's not time to make a change, just relax, take it easy, you're still young, that's your fault, there's so much you have to know. Find a girl, settle down, if you want you can marry. Look at me, I am old, but I'm happy. I was once like you are now, and I know that it's not easy to be calm when you've found something going on. But take your time, think a lot, think of everything you've got, for you will still be here tomorrow, but your dreams may not.
Logic lacking
That's not the point of my question and you know it.
It is not for us to decide if somebody is guilty or not but the authorities now require us to report certain issues to them in case it can then link the issue to other more serious matters.
Given the number of people who have been groomed and then gone abroad to fight for IS all I am asking is this an issue that the authorities may require us to report. It is not as daft a question as some (hilariously) make out and even if nothing is required to be reported it wouldn't surprise me if it won't be long before we are - simply because of the paranoia within government.
I will repeat for the last time I have not asked this question because I am anti muslim or bigoted in any other way.
On the 12th of August a fair number of people I know use guns, ought I report them? The connective logic as to why I ought to report them to someone is as good as your logic, mine however is not quite so unpalatable.
Reporting
The facts as you know them are:
1. A client has changed their name to what you consider to be a 'Muslim' name.
2. That's it.
Hence the confusion as to what and why you consider there is to be reported.
report all M's?
If you report this convert, then surely you must report all Muslims you encounter in carrying on your profession.
Or is there something that innately links a convert to terrorrism that does not link one born into the faith?
Like
If you report this convert, then surely you must report all Muslims you encounter in carrying on your profession.
Or is there something that innately links a convert to terrorrism that does not link one born into the faith?
A muggle?
Already flagged?
If you report this convert, then surely you must report all Muslims you encounter in carrying on your profession.
Or is there something that innately links a convert to terrorrism that does not link one born into the faith?
I would wager that anyone who changes to a Muslim name or converts to Islam already gets flagged.
@James
I don't think you deserve to be shot down in flames for what you feel is a question.
Do you feel this is more than just a name change? Are you additionally suspicious of anything the guy is doing.
These are not nice times we are living in and I guess a lot of people are now attracting false suspicion.
But how many times do we hear after after something bad like has happened in France that the perpetrators were known to the authorities but were deemed not a risk or suspicions not followed up.
On a different note I had an Indian client who was an Elvis impersonator, he changed his name to Jimahl Shookup, I didn't report him as his only crimes were against music.
I do not agree
I don't think you deserve to be shot down in flames for what you feel is a question.
Grooming
I had a self-confessed dog groomer come in wanting me to deal with his bits and bobs the other day. I soon sent him off with a flea in his ear!
Sensible
I can assure you that it is a muslim name.
I don't necessarily think there is something to report. But I didn't know if I should still report anyway and under the current climate if it is something that should be reported even if in the end it proved to be nothing untoward. In the end how many Money Laundering reports lead to something substantial yet we still have to make them.
I just wanted to see if anybody had any sensible opinions on here (but not unsurprisingly not many have)
In this forum, sensible questions are usually met with sensible answers.
What does that tell you about your question?
Sensible
The sensible opinion which I think most people have given is that you don't need to report anything because there's nothing to report and nobody to report the said nothing to.
I now understand
Thanks for your posting.
I won't budge from the fact I have asked a perfectly legitimate question and those making the nasty comments are doing so because it is the way they always are on here and refuse to have the decency to read my posts properly and take them as they were intended, because they would not then be able to exercise their natural instincts.
They just sit with this site open all day with nothing else to do but wait to feed their appetite to troll.
@ DJKL. Glorious twelfth not quite an event to worry about. Especially as I partake myself. Although in order to live up to some of the ridiculous comments on here I would worry if anybody turned up who wasn't white. Luckily though, given I live in the Yorkshire Dales, we don't get many of that sort up here so the stand out like sore thumb.
I now understand, I have fallen through a wormhole and am in a universe where we have the internet but it is the 1970s.
Nothing
I now understand, I have fallen through a wormhole and am in a universe where we have the internet but it is the 1970s.
Ach - that's nothing. It's been 1690 in parts of Northern Ireland for over 300 years.
Take the following stance
What would you do if he changed his name to Declan O'Murphy - possible IRA
What would you do if he changed his name to Adolf Hitler - possible right wing extremist
What would you do if he changed his name to Tony Blair - possible fraud
And do the same - the fact that his name is possibly "Muslim sounding" should make no difference it is what you perceive the change of name to be hiding that is all you need to worry about.
I think Tony Blair has committed more war crimes than ISIS.
Do we now need to flag up people called Tony?
No responsibility
As I have said, changing to a name to a muslim name does not necessarily (and on most occasions) mean something untoward all I wanted to know is if we are still expected to report it to someone. Don't know why that is such a contensious question.
I can't see that you have any responsibilities whatsoever for telling the authorities about someone lawfully changing their name and it would not be proper to do so without some other reasonable suspicion. As I suggested, given the times we live in, when they change their passport, driving licence, tax records etc I would be highly surprised if it wasn't flagged up anyway.
It takes someone of serious religious conviction to genuinely and sincerely want to convert to a life of joyless subjugation so you have to wonder what the motives are of some converts.
I have just seen a lady with a backpack and wearing a hijab get on a bus. She obviously had something in her hand too. Do you think I should call the police James?
The legal position
Essentially in the 'needing to report' context there are three classes of people in the UK. Class 1 is everybody. Class 2 is everybody with a job (employment or self-employment, including an unpaid job - voluntary work). Class 3 is everybody working in the 'regulated sector' as defined under the Money Laundering Regulations 2007 (& other reporting laws).
Obviously people in class 2 are also in class 1 & people in class 3 are also in class 1 & class 2.
People in class 1 have to report (i.e. to self report) their own involvement in money laundering (see ss 327 - 329 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002).
People in class 2 to have report suspicions that others may be engaged in a terrorist property offence where that suspicion is based on information which came to them in the course of their work. Such offences include fund raising for terrorist purposes & handling of monies or other assets likely to be used for terrorist purposes or generated from terrorist acts such as terrorist extortion (see ss 15 - 22A Terrorism Act 2000).
People in class 3 (including accountants in practice etc) have report suspicions that others may be engaged in a money laundering offence where that suspicion is based on information which came to them in the course of their work in the 'regulated sector' (see s330 Proceeds of Crime Act 2002).
That's a bit of a simple & broad summary but hopefully you get the picture.
The OP has to consider whether he suspects, as a result of information that has come to him in the course of his work, that someone is engaged in a terrorist property offence.
However he does not have to report a suspicion that, say, someone he knows has committed a murder (even where that was a terrorist murder). It is the monies / assets that are central to the reporting requirement.
I hope that helps.
David
P.S. People in Scotland have additional reporting responsibilities in respect of their own involvement in organised crime & in certain circumstances their suspicions of the involvement of others in organised crime.
Could a name be considered terrorist property David? A name is, surely after all, a form of intellectual property, and apparently the OP's client has a rather suspicious sounding new name.
@PNL
That's a very interesting question & I'm glad you have asked it (as politicians like to say before failing to answer a question which they have been asked!).
David
Great thread
I can't see this staying here long but this has given me a chuckle to see everyone's thinly veiled prejudices coming through. I have them too so I'm not nay saying anyone. Product of being a scared westerner. Just glad I'm in t'north.
Next time he's in the office have a can of Schweppes Gold on the table and see what happens.
Well from the information that David has provided, it seems that James does have a reporting obligation, since in the course of his private work he has discovered that his client has come int o possession of a suspicious name, that he thinks may be used for the purposes of terrorism.