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Why ...
... don't you ask a lawyer.
And allow us to get on with questions about accountancy and tax.
Fraudulently?
Your post indicates that it was fraudukent. Accidental fraud is not really possible. Fraud involves the three Ds
Deprivation of economic benefitDeceptionDeliberate (the existence of mens rea)
So you have to dislodge one or more of these before you can get anywhere. Now, you're trying to say, I think, that it wasn't deliberate. So you need some robust medical evidence. It's a very high hurdle, but you probably need to start by talking to his or her GP.
If a court of first instance, such as a tribunal, has already made a finding of fact that it was indeed fraud, then that's likely to stick, unless you can show that the finding was one that that no reasonable person would make.
Realisitically you're looking at mitigation and nothing more. Good luck.
Are you sure?
If benefits were claimed over a period of 8 years which were not due I would be surprised if the amount was only £20,000.
However if that is the case & if there is mitigation through illness then a suspended sentence looks likely - probably combined with an unpaid work order.
The real kick in the teeth might however be confiscation on the basis of a 'criminal lifestyle' - which might well wipe him out financially.
As others have said this is a legal issue - not an accountancy one. So he needs to talk to his legal team. If he can fully repay the overclaimed amounts before sentencing that would be a smart move IMHO.
The HMRC depression case concerned civil penalties for late payment of tax (which has since been paid). A different scenario altogether!
David
Difference
There is a difference, in sentencing terms, between "to the tune of £20,000" and "at least £32,000".
David
No insinuation
Sorry no insinuation meant. What I meant to say is it you that is fraudulently claiming all these benefits from innocent taxpayers and making up all these hard luck stories. Short fuse and Xmas day dramas indeed!! Pull yourself together or get treatment
Wow, howlin wolf. Way to go to be kind and sympathetic. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.
Depression is a cruel, evil illness that can be fatal (I have personal experience of this).
It sounds like a complicated case but if depression is really the culprit then I wish the person involved the best of luck. It can really distort a persons judgement.
Monsoon
I agree with your sentiments, but if you looked at all that the OP has posted over the last year or so, you would realise where the Wolf was coming from, and that "little white bull" was an apt amalgamation of two well known phrases.
Those who are unable to cope
Unfortunately our society (or our government - & this is not intended as a party political point) is not geared towards recognising the difficulties of those who find themselves 'unable to cope' for some reason.
There are, as we accountants know only too well, a plethora of penalties for failures to do things on time - whether that be RTI, CIS, VAT, self assessment income tax, or something else - and those penalties are getting more severe.
It is fair enough to say that a person in business 'should' be able to deal with these things promptly - but how many businesspeople will, at one time or another, suffer a period of perhaps weeks or months during which they unable to attend to these routine matters? Will the 'reasonable excuse' provisions operate to ensure that these people are not unfairly penalised?
RM
If you say so
Do you know that I could hound you out and have you, and other people like you, taken to court for defamation of character. I quote yet again this person is not me as I have never claimed benefits illegally or fraudulently.Unfortunately our society (or our government - & this is not intended as a party political point) is not geared towards recognising the difficulties of those who find themselves 'unable to cope' for some reason.
There are, as we accountants know only too well, a plethora of penalties for failures to do things on time - whether that be RTI, CIS, VAT, self assessment income tax, or something else - and those penalties are getting more severe.
It is fair enough to say that a person in business 'should' be able to deal with these things promptly - but how many businesspeople will, at one time or another, suffer a period of perhaps weeks or months during which they unable to attend to these routine matters? Will the 'reasonable excuse' provisions operate to ensure that these people are not unfairly penalised?
RM
LittleWhiteBull 23 Oct Delete Block Forward
I only committed a crime of fraud according to the police, CPS and courts and they are not worth a bullet out of my gun.
I'm sure it's you
Maybe you have never knowingly claimed benefits fraudulently or illegally. Come on own up now. You'll feel much better.
No surprise
It's no surprise that people who genuinely suffer from depression (long or short-term) or other mental health issues get such a rough deal when there are people like the OP who try and use it as a get out clause when they've been on the fiddle and got caught out. This is what really [***] me off. The ones who really deserve the support just do their damnest to battle through until they fall apart, while the cheats and scroungers (and I'm including in that those who claim stress to get a few days off work whenever they fancy) make up stories and throw a tantrum when they're called on it.
I've had depression and other mental health issues, had a best friend with severe depression (to the extent of attempted suicide) but equally known too many people who play the system. And as there will always unfortunately be the latter, mental health issues will always be looked on with suspicion and disbelief.
Where's the question?
Please reinstate your question and refrain in future from removing them. SO PLEASE REMOVE YOUR COMMENT AND REFRAIN IN FUTURE FROM MAKING THEM.
You have done this several times in the past, usually when you get responses that you don't like. It is very poor forum etiquette and shows a marked lack of respect to the other users who have taken time to respond. If you want to be respected, you need to start showing a little respect yourself.
Agree with @stepurhan ...
@LittleWhiteBull
If you are not prepared to leave your question up then don't post in the first place
Deja vu
Reading Little White('s Heap of) Bull(****) brought back such happy memories of someone else who used to tell us such funny fairy stories. Ah those were the days. I still wonder how his horse was (the one that (cough) left him in hospital)....