Do I need to file my account again with the HMRC having filed as Micro-Entity?

Do I need to file my account again with the...

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I registered a limited liability company and used it for additional part time job as required by the recruitment agency. I filed for Micro-Entity account with Company House giving that the income is less than £20000. However, I don't seem to be clear weather I am still required to file my account with the HMRC in addition to it's inclusion in my SA. 

Please could anyone help clarify the position and requirement of HMRC on the filing. Thanks.

Replies (12)

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By johngroganjga
30th Dec 2014 14:45

Yes your company will need to attach a copy of its accounts (in iXBRL format) to the corporation tax return that it will have to send to HMRC.  They will need to be the full version of the accounts, which will be different from the version you have filed at Companies House if it was abbreviated.

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Replying to Amanacca:
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By Goodman
30th Dec 2014 14:57

Thank you so much for your time. The fact is that I tried twice to register the company with the HMRC for this purpose but they never issue any User ID/UTR in response to my online registration. Hence I am thinking may be it's not required.

I really appreciate your response.

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Replying to Kevkava:
RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Dec 2014 15:13

Ten digit number

Goodman wrote:

Thank you so much for your time. The fact is that I tried twice to register the company with the HMRC for this purpose but they never issue any User ID/UTR in response to my online registration. Hence I am thinking may be it's not required.

I really appreciate your response.

Your UTR is issued a few weeks after registration.  You don't have to apply for it - Companies House tells HMRC that your company's been formed and HMRC write to you.  It's a ten digit number, often split into two fives.

You only need to file micro-entity accounts at Companies House (if you qualify) but you should prepare full accounts for the shareholders.  Maybe the shareholders aren't bothered about seeing full accounts but, unfortunately, HMRC are.

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By DKB-Sheffield
30th Dec 2014 14:54

Or with HMRC Online...

You can use dual filing with HMRC Online. You can then create the full accounts and computations on there prior to completion of your CT600. That way you will avoid having to produce iXBRL accounts

As I believe you are not a tax professional, I would certainly recommend this route as it guides you through the whole process in a way that most tax software does not and avoids you having to produce iXBRL accounts (which is both timely, requires good taxonomy knowledge and comes at a cost).

If you don't have a user ID for HMRC Online, please visit the hmrc.gov.uk website (which will take you through the the relevant gov.uk page) and select "Login or register for HMRC Online Services" in the RHS pane.

Hope this helps!

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By johngroganjga
30th Dec 2014 15:01

How can it not be required?  Of course your company has to declare and pay its tax liabilities.

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By DKB-Sheffield
30th Dec 2014 15:30

UserID or UTR?

Regardless of the way in which you file your return, you will have to have a 10-digit UTR (issued around the time of incorporation and detailed on all correspondence sent by HMRC relating to Corporation Tax) and an activated User ID (unless you get an agent to submit the return on your behalf).

If you haven't got either of the above, you will not be able to file online using HMRC or software filing (unless you are a registered agent who is able to file without the HMRC ID).

Further clarification:

The UTR is shown on letters from HMRC and is usually (although not always) prefixed with a 3 digit tax office code. An example would be 999 99999 99999. If you do not have this, you will need to contact HMRC on 0300 200 3410 (8-6 Mon-Fri) to request details be sent through.

Your HMRC Online ID is also referred to as your Government Gateway ID. When you attempted to sign up for CT Online, you would have registered and been shown a 12-character reference. It is possible that, if you have tried a couple of time, you will have been shown 2 (ignore the 2nd one at this stage).
If you managed to set up the account properly and register for Corporation Tax Online, HMRC will also have sent you an Authentication Code which will be on a letter with a tear-off security slip. In most cases, this will arrive within a few days of registering but, the post this Christmas has been ridiculous and so, a 2-3 week window would not be unusual (the awkward bit is the code only lasts 28 days from sending).
Once this arrives, you can authorise your CT online account using your Government Gateway ID.

However... I get the impression you have done this and either, have forgotten your Government Gateway ID or have not received the authentication code. If this is the case, the only way you can resolve this is by contacting HMRC Online Services Helpdesk to request a Reminder of your ID and a replacement Authentication Code. The Online Services Helpdesk is on 0300 200 3600 with your CT UTR to hand.

If on the other hand you do have the Government Gateway ID, you can access this and request a reminder authentication code by logging into your HMRC Online Account. You simply select services you can use and follow the link to the CT area where it will give you the option to request authentication.

Final note... When is your CT filing deadline? If it within the next 2-3 weeks, you should either; appoint an agent to file the return and accounts for you or contact HMRC, explain the situation and ask for extra time to file. It's worth a call even if they say "no" in the end. However, you must do this as soon as possible before the filing deadline (i.e. today) to stand any chance of an extension.

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Out of my mind
By runningmate
30th Dec 2014 15:58

What figure did you include in your self assessment?

What figure did you put on your self assessment income tax return?  How did you calculate it? What period did it cover? How did you describe it?

Did you, for example, just include the gross 'wage' you were paid by the recruitment agency (or their customer who 'employed' you) as your income from employment with the agency (or its customer)?

If so you have missed the point of using your own limited company.

You were employed by the company you formed (not by the recruitment agency or its customer) and your company should have operated a PAYE scheme, calculated income tax & national insurance contributions & paid those to HMRC.

If you do not understand that (& even if you do) you would be well advised to see an accountant for further advice.

RM

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Replying to DJKL:
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By DKB-Sheffield
30th Dec 2014 16:21

I Apologise...

Sorry, after reading the comments of runningmate, I accept my advice was incorrect and misleading!

I assumed from your post you were talking about the Corporation Tax Self Assessment Return and not the Individual Self Assessment Return (as I believe did all others with the exception of runningmate).

Your limited company and you are two individual entities.

You should report your company profits on the CT600 Corporation Tax return, in which case you do need to file accounts with it in iXBRL format or using the HMRC Online Software.

You report your income on your individual self assessment return and your income from the limited company will then be reported as "wages" from employment or "dividends" from distributable profits. Both of these should also be reported correctly in the company accounts and in turn on the company CT600. You do not however file accounts or detail any other part of the accounts on your Self Assessment return (especially under the Self Employment pages)

Once again, I apologise for the confusion but, as you were referring to a corporate body and then querying whether accounts should be submitted with your tax return, I jumped to the (clearly) incorrect assumption that you were also talking about your Corporation Tax return and filing.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
30th Dec 2014 17:25

Clarify

Maybe the OP will say whether he means his own self assessment or that of his company.

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Out of my mind
By runningmate
30th Dec 2014 19:58

My assumption / fear is that the OP has filed micro entity annual company accounts with Companies House & a self assessment income tax return with HMRC (both of these showing as income the amounts received from the recruitment agency) & done nothing else.

In other words, no PAYE scheme for the company, no salary, no dividends, no corporation tax return, no company accounts (beyond the micro entity accounts sent to CoHo).

I hope I am wrong!

RM

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By petersaxton
31st Dec 2014 08:00

Best advice

Get an accountant and then you wont mess it all up. 

There's too many possibilities to deal with on an advice website for accountants.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
31st Dec 2014 08:26

Account

I've finished with this one until the OP returns to say exactly what he's trying (or not trying) to file here.

He does say, though, that he "tried to register his company" with HMRC.

The use of the word "account" rather than "accounts" is worrying here.

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