Do you charge fee or % for Successful appeal against HMRC penalties?

Do you charge fee or % for Successful appeal...

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Hi all,

I have a client who has been fined for his own mistake. I have warned him previously, now that i am going to appeal against the penalty with possibility of winning I want to charge him for that particular service. Has anyone encountered such case before? if yes have you charged a fee or % and how much?

Many thanks,

Replies (23)

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By johngroganjga
27th Mar 2015 12:06

Charge for your time. Are you really happy with the idea of working for free if the appeal is not won? 

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By keynes
27th Mar 2015 12:09

Yes won't charge if appeal not won! Thank you John

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By MissAccounting
27th Mar 2015 12:13

Its his mistake and youre not going to charge for your time?

Personally I would give them an hourly rate and a time estimate and get that money up front as a deposit.

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RedFive
By RedFive
27th Mar 2015 12:17

 

 

Check with your Professional body as to what ethical considerations you need to give with regard to contingent fees.

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
27th Mar 2015 12:18

Possibility of winning?

If you acknowledge that the fine was the client's mistake, on what basis are you appealing the penalty?

Because I can't help feeling an appeal against a correctly applied penalty is just clogging up the system, delaying resolution of appeals for those who have genuinely done nothing wrong.

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Replying to Makkusu:
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By Roland195
27th Mar 2015 12:44

Two months

stepurhan wrote:

Because I can't help feeling an appeal against a correctly applied penalty is just clogging up the system, delaying resolution of appeals for those who have genuinely done nothing wrong.

I have just been told not to expect a response to an appeal I filed Mid February to the end of April.

The system is undoubtedly clogged and I wonder if this works for or against our clients - does it mean that appeal get a cursory glance then automatic rejection or are they more inclined to accept them simply to stop the process being taking further?

In this instance, I read it as the client accepted he was at fault rather than the accountant but still may have a reasonable excuse.

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Replying to Makkusu:
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By User deleted
27th Mar 2015 12:51

Better still

stepurhan wrote:

If you acknowledge that the fine was the client's mistake, on what basis are you appealing the penalty?

Because I can't help feeling an appeal against a correctly applied penalty is just clogging up the system, delaying resolution of appeals for those who have genuinely done nothing wrong.

Charge him a fee upfront, get your cash, write a letter and forget to send it! That way you get paid for wasting your time, the client has the same result as if you had sent it, and the system is slightly better for the real cases!

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By JCresswellTax
27th Mar 2015 12:56

How professional!

Flash Gordon wrote:

Charge him a fee upfront, get your cash, write a letter and forget to send it! That way you get paid for wasting your time, the client has the same result as if you had sent it, and the system is slightly better for the real cases!

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Replying to Allyaz:
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By User deleted
27th Mar 2015 13:45

???

JCresswellTax wrote:

Flash Gordon wrote:

Charge him a fee upfront, get your cash, write a letter and forget to send it! That way you get paid for wasting your time, the client has the same result as if you had sent it, and the system is slightly better for the real cases!

I was kidding! God, I'd forgotten that few people round here have a sense of humour.....

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Murray MacLeod A and T
30th Mar 2015 14:40

Better still!!!!!
If this is an example of how you handle work entrusted to you, then you are someone to be avoided. You expect honest Bookkeepers and Accountants like the majority of us would cheat a client and obtain money from them by deception, that is what you are saying right? Your ethics don't seem to exist and your morals are highly suspect. 

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By Jekyll and Hyde
27th Mar 2015 12:34

possible on the basis of an.....
.... innocent error, or perhaps appealing against a reasonable excuse for error.

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By Harrison88
27th Mar 2015 13:06

It's the client's decision

People are questioning why it is being appealed. The OP can only advise their client and it is the client's wish to take it to appeals so they must do their best to appeal it. That's not up for debate as part of the OP's question.

In regards to contingent fees, I would advice going for time based with an estimate of time so the client can't come back and say "how much?!".

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Replying to jcace:
By ShirleyM
27th Mar 2015 13:21

What?

Harrison88 wrote:

People are questioning why it is being appealed. The OP can only advise their client and it is the client's wish to take it to appeals so they must do their best to appeal it. That's not up for debate as part of the OP's question.

In regards to contingent fees, I would advice going for time based with an estimate of time so the client can't come back and say "how much?!".

Yes, it is up for debate.

@Harrison: If it was the clients wish to appeal despite your advising against it, would you still take their money, even though an appeal was bound to fail.

@keynes: If the client will not heed your professional advice then they are not worth any of your time, so refuse to appeal, or get rid.

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Replying to ComanCo:
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By Harrison88
27th Mar 2015 14:11

Yes...

ShirleyM wrote:

Yes, it is up for debate.

@Harrison: If it was the clients wish to appeal despite your advising against it, would you still take their money, even though an appeal was bound to fail.

Of course! And I would do everything in my power to assist them as their advisers. What are you going to do? Tell them to go it alone? If a lawyer believes their client is guilty do you think they shouldn't take a case? There wouldn't be very many public defenders if that's the case.

Although I should note, I would never lie and if the client knowingly lies, thereby committing an offence, then I would resign.

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Replying to jcurran:
By ShirleyM
27th Mar 2015 15:13

That's why ...

Harrison88 wrote:

If a lawyer believes their client is guilty do you think they shouldn't take a case? There wouldn't be very many public defenders if that's the case.

... I could never be a defence lawyer.

Even as an accountant, I don't think I could defend an appeal unless I honestly thought I and the client were in the right, and HMRC were wrong. I would feel like a liar, otherwise.

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By airgeadagam
27th Mar 2015 13:15

How Big is the Fine?

Hard to comment without knowing the total of the fine. If the fine is £100 I would suggest a large percentage.

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By JCresswellTax
27th Mar 2015 13:54

Just fancied

Being annoying tbh :)

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By User deleted
27th Mar 2015 14:14

@ JCresswell

I may forgive you then. But only because it's Friday!

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By odysseyats
27th Mar 2015 15:12

I could have written, printed and posted the appeal in less than the time it's taken me to read all these posts.  

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By ver1tate
27th Mar 2015 16:35

charging clients

Lawyers charge £23 just for sending an e mail acknowledging a letter. A good basis for your fees.

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By hiu612
30th Mar 2015 12:29

fees

Decide what you'd charge on an hourly basis, and make sure the contingent fee is at least double, if not more. If you are risking not getting paid then your client needs to be willing to pay significantly more in the event you are successful.

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By RobSmith
30th Mar 2015 14:52

How long is a piece of string

I don't have a time ledger. I'm not sure if that is yet in the majority or in the minority. 

Appeals against run-of-the mill penalties should be factored in to your agreed fee for compliance work. If you try to charge for something menial it rubs the client up the wrong way. 

If on the other hand the fine is substantial, then, by implication, the work required is separately chargeable. If you succeed you have to calculate what it was worth to the client.

In addition, if you succeed, this is your best form of advertising. Your client will tell others (if you make it clear that you would like them to tell others) and you may gain work. 

Simply charging on a time basis and then burying your head in the sand is an antique business model.

 

 

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By kevindavies
17th Jan 2019 16:10

,

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