Employment intermediaries report

Employment intermediaries report

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Anyone done one of these reports yet?  What a pain in the backside. Had hoped I would be able to get a report from payroll manager for the CIS ones but have had to manually key it all in.  Have you charged your clients for this?

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By The Innkeeper
22nd Jul 2015 11:04

haven't done one

but why on earth wouldn't you charge

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Euan's picture
By Euan MacLennan
22nd Jul 2015 11:19

Do you need a report?

I would have thought that most CIS subbies work for the CIS contractor, rather than for the end client, and the contractor would therefore not be required to file an intermediary's report.

Certainly, the legislation is aimed at identifying workers who have been paid gross, when they should not have been, and who have therefore not otherwise been reported to HMRC.  Payments to subbies are reported to HMRC every month on CIS300 returns, so what else needs to be reported?

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By thomas
22nd Jul 2015 11:40

I've been on two tax courses and asked the same question Euan as it feels overkill because there is a reporting structure in place already for CIS.   Both tax courses have advised this does affect CIS contractors.

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By Euan MacLennan
22nd Jul 2015 13:49

What reasons did the "tax courses" give?

It depends on the question.  I agree that some CIS contractors might be affected, but not that all CIS contractors are affected.

In the normal circumstance of a builder using subbies to work for him on a building job, the builder is not an agency.  The subbies are not working for the builder's client, but for the builder.  There is no employment intermediary and no report is required (apart from the monthly CIS300 returns).

Where the contractor provides subbies to other builders to work on their jobs, I agree that he is acting as an employment intermediary and would need to submit an intermediary report.

 

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By Sandnickel
22nd Jul 2015 13:56

I just filed one

It doesn't help that you have to faff about with formatting a spreadsheet that HMRC provide so that they will accept it...

With regards to CIS, thomas is correct. If you are paying a subbie through an agency then you have to put them on the report. If you are paying them to do construction work for your company then that doesn't go on the report.

EDIT: crossed with Euan. Think the confusion is that the legislation states "any worker who is not paid through PAYE"

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By thomas
22nd Jul 2015 14:13

They referenced S44 - IETPA 2003 - there are a few specific exclusions eg personal service companies, entertainers and services provided wholly in the workers home.

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By thomas
22nd Jul 2015 16:25

And I suppose the query about the charge was because this report isn't in my engagement letter( do I need to issue another?) nor is it included in any fixed fee agreement so the client is largely unaware of its existence and certainly wont be expecting a bill and given its not a massive amount of work its barely worth the discussion.

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By Sandnickel
22nd Jul 2015 16:47

Charge

I would say that you need to add this into your engagement letter and bill accordingly. This is extra work whether the client realises it or not.

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By The Innkeeper
22nd Jul 2015 16:52

We have a


a separate schedule ,with prices, of extras which are not included in the fixed fee.

The extras list clearly states that it is not exhaustive.

 

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By DMGbus
23rd Jul 2015 08:51

Supply of construction services (not supply of staff)

My view is that in a CIS situation a contractor is supplying construction services rather than staff.  The staff are used / consumed by the construction company in supplying building services as opposed to used by the customer.

Hence my view that no report is due other than monthly CIS300.

If I am wrong then it would be interesting to see how the interpretation could affect other industries / professions ... accountants and lawyers making reports as they are "supplying staff" to their clients (I think not!).  

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By Sandnickel
23rd Jul 2015 14:42

Depends on the situation

As Euan correctly stated, some CIS subbies are caught. It's all about who pays who. If the subcontractor is paid by an agency to work for the building company then he needs to be on the report (sent by the agency). If he is paid directly by the building company then he doesn't need to be on a report.

That's what I've done anyway, rightly or wrongly.

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