Entertainers

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A client has purchased a small theatre. They are putting on performances by comedians and other such entertainers. Can the entertainers be treated as self employed? Clearly there is no rIght of substitution but they are not paid for the time they write their material etc.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
14th Jun 2013 15:35

thats a funny question

presumably the comedians will work else where with booking made through an agent so I would assume they are all self employed.

The whole entertainment game is very loose and its difficult to cover yourself.

A lot of these people work on a cash only basis and getting invoices from them can be tricky.

Apperently Ken Dodd would only work for 50% cash and 50% of his fee on an invoice by cheque. This became known as doing a Doddy and was standard practice untl he got jailed for tax evasion, which I assume he did not see the funny side of.

I think larger acts work on % of door proceeds etc so dont charge a fee on an invocie as such.

All I can suggest is only pay fees to those who give you invoices and keep things as tight as can be to protect your client.

I would only think they would be classed as employees if they became a "house comedian" like at a holiday camp and did not work anywhere else.

 

 

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By Steve Kesby
14th Jun 2013 15:43

Tell HMRC...

... that they're supposed to bring their own chairs, but it's industry practice not to. I'll be here all week.

EDIT: Only just noticed that the only mention of comedians was in the short description section, so not everyone will see it. The OP mentioned comedians, honest!

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By petersaxton
14th Jun 2013 15:42

Jailed?

Ken Dodd was acquitted.

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By mrme89
14th Jun 2013 15:53

Correct Peter

In 1989 Dodd was charged with tax evasion. The subsequent trial, with the prosecution case led by Brian Leveson QC, produced several revelations. The Diddy Men, who had appeared in his stage act, were often played by local children from stage schools, and were revealed never to have been paid. Dodd was also revealed to have very little money in his bank account, having £336,000 in cash stashed in suitcases in his attic. When asked by the judge, "What does a hundred thousand pounds in a suitcase feel like?", Dodd made his now famous reply, "The notes are very light, M'Lord."[10]

Dodd was represented by George Carman, who in court famously quipped, "Some accountants are comedians, but comedians are never accountants".[11] The trial lasted three weeks: Dodd was acquitted.[11] 

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
14th Jun 2013 16:08

.I stand corrected

Sorry for my inaccurate post.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
14th Jun 2013 16:08

Got Acquitted - Did He?

No Doddy.

Ha HA

Used to love Ken Dodd.

 

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By petersaxton
14th Jun 2013 16:12

I understand

If you casually read about the case you would have thought he would get found guilty.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
14th Jun 2013 16:18

I would be keen to know how he explained

the £336,000 petty cash in the attic.

 

 

 

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The triggle is a distant cousin of the squonk (pictured)
By Triggle
14th Jun 2013 16:21

Carman's master-stroke was to have the trial held in Liverpool. Not that I think Ken did anything wrong of course.

I bet his home contents insurance went through the roof after the trial though.

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By Moonbeam
14th Jun 2013 16:42

Back to the Original Question..

I have worked for an artist's agent in the past and I have a part-time actor as a client.

When paying the artists concerned, they are treated as self employed, but NI is deducted where earnings are high enough in a particular week, along with commission. A statement must be given to the "worker" showing gross, expenses paid, and the deductions, so they can fill in their tax return.

The theatre will need to know the NI number of the person concerned, and it would be useful for them to record the UTR at the same time, just in case the person hasn't signed up for self employment.

Although the cash options were presumably very popular in the past, I would have thought HMRC will be very interested to see that things are done properly in this day and age, and if there isn't a proper paper trail and payment of NI to them they will be all over the "employer" like a rash.

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By Paul Soper
14th Jun 2013 16:51

NI?

You need to download the latest version of the Film & TV guide and guidance for entertainers and NI - http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/guidance/nicrules-ents.pdf.  If they get into repertory theatre it really does get into the NIC field by simply 'one night performances' and similar by an entertainer will not involve any element of salary and should NOT be NIC'able. Pantomimes, summer shows etc would bring you into the theatrical field.

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By nick farrow
14th Jun 2013 17:18

comedians

I act for many comedians - their live stand up performance is always self employment

however where they act as well in film&TV they will usually have dual status:

s/e for IT

e for class 1 NI - see the ITV case

 

 

 

 

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By alltaxedout
14th Jun 2013 20:22

Some great replies there. Thanks.

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By Steve Kesby
15th Jun 2013 11:14

The UTT decision...

... in Pete Matthews and Keith Sidwick released yesterday might also provide some comfort, although it simply backs up what others have already said. The appellants were entertainers on cruise liners and were held to be self-employed, the artistic content of their performances being matters for which they were solely responsible.

Shame for them because they would have got the seafarers' deduction if it had been employment income, instead they got to pay £10,000 towards HMRC's costs.

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