Requesting no further answers to the question of

Requesting no further answers to the question of

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Requesting no further answers to the question of filing dormant accounts with HMRC

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
27th Feb 2014 09:01

Not traded

You don't file CT returns, because the company has not traded. You need to write a letter informing HMRC of that fact and confirming the actual start date of trade.

Dormant accounts can be filed with Companies House either online or using the paper form AA02

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By johngroganjga
27th Feb 2014 09:06

Presumably you mean file with

Presumably you mean file with HMRC?

Don't quite understand the question.  Why would you think that the method of filing accounts and CT returns would be different for a dormant company from that which you would use for an active company?

What have your clients been fined for?  CT returns for a year ended 31 March 2013 are not yet overdue.

You seem to be accepting that a dormant company is under an obligation to submit a CT return, as your question is about how, not whether, it should do so.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2014 10:03

Tell HMRC they've not traded

Sounds like the Revenue think there's something to report.  If there's no trading, let them know that.

A word of warning about filing dormant accounts at Companies House - not trading is not necessarily the same as dormant.  Dormant means no transactions at all.  You may need to prepare accounts for the period - though, no doubt they'll be very simple.

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By johngroganjga
27th Feb 2014 10:13

But the OP says the companies traded up to 31 March 2013.  So on any analysis returns are required for that year, but are not yet overdue, yet the OP says the clients have been fined for not submitting them!  No doubt the OP will explain the facts more fully in due course.

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Replying to Matrix:
By LittleWhiteBull
27th Feb 2014 21:07

Reply

johngroganjga wrote:

But the OP says the companies traded up to 31 March 2013.  So on any analysis returns are required for that year, but are not yet overdue, yet the OP says the clients have been fined for not submitting them!  No doubt the OP will explain the facts more fully in due course.

Started trading 1 April 2012 and were fined for not filing accounts to 21 October 2012. The accounting period end was changed to 31 March and so the period of dormancy/non-trading ended 31 March 2012.
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RLI
By lionofludesch
27th Feb 2014 10:16

Previous Year

Exactly, John.  I was thinking that the penalties must be for the 2012 year end - or earlier.

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By johngroganjga
27th Feb 2014 21:20

Then the fines aren't due because the period they were charged for does not seem to have been a period of account of the company. Just tell HMRC that the company's accounting reference date is 31 March and the next accounts to be filed will be made up to 31 March 2013. They should cancel the penalties. The need to file dormant accounts, which is what your question is about, does not arise.

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By petersaxton
28th Feb 2014 09:34

Something tells me

that this will end in tears if the OP tries to get by using AccountingWeb for their accounting and tax needs.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By LittleWhiteBull
01st Mar 2014 14:03

Many thanks Peter but I can't afford to risk paying client's

petersaxton wrote:

that this will end in tears if the OP tries to get by using Accounting Web for their accounting and tax needs.

Many thanks Peter but I can't afford to risk paying client's penalties to the money grabbing government departments.

Yes it might well end in tears. We are all supposed to help each other on this site. I only have a small number of clients and they are scattered over a large area and the fees are all low.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Feb 2014 11:11

Indeed it will

There's no doubt about that, Peter.

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By petersaxton
01st Mar 2014 17:55

You don't understand

I'm saying that you wont get all the answers you need because on here people wont know everything an accountant who was working for you would make sure they knew.

If you are saying that you are an accountant I don't think you know enough to get clients. I would suggest getting a job and learning more before starting out on your own.

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Replying to SteveRA:
By LittleWhiteBull
03rd Mar 2014 11:06

Explanation for Peter

petersaxton wrote:

I'm saying that you wont get all the answers you need because on here people wont know everything an accountant who was working for you would make sure they knew.

If you are saying that you are an accountant I don't think you know enough to get clients. I would suggest getting a job and learning more before starting out on your own.

I am a qualified accountant but I took 5 1/2 years off to deal with another business set up and other problems. I was put in at the deep end when the person I was working for, just doing VAT/Bookkeeping/Accounts only, was sent to prison and was struck off as a director and lost his qualifications. I live miles away from where update courses are run and my total turnover from these clients is only £15,000 and they are spread over a large area. If I was to pack in doing this work I would have to draw benefits to live on for the next 3 1/2 years until I reach pension age. What do you suggest?
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David Winch
By David Winch
01st Mar 2014 21:59

If I understand you correctly

The companies were incorporated in October 2011, commenced to trade in April 2012, and their first period of account runs to 31 March 2013.

I am assuming that you have filed (some time ago) a form with Companies House extending the first accounting period of the companies so that their first 'year' is a period of nearly 18 months ending on 31 March 2013**.

In that case you need to inform HMRC of the date on which each company commenced to trade & that accounts for each company will be prepared for the period to 31 March 2013.  Full accounts (& a corporation tax (CT) return for the period from commencement of trading to 31 March 2013 - a period not exceeding 12 months) for each company need to be filed with HMRC by 31 March 2014 (assuming that the commencement to trade was not before 1 April 2012).

Any penalties already raised by HMRC should be cancelled when they get this information.

For Companies House (CH), accounts for each company need to be prepared covering the period from the date of incorporation to 31 March 2013 & these need to be filed at CH (either full or abbreviated accounts).  The deadline to file these has already long passed (so I hope you have already filed them!).  There are automatic penalties from CH when accounts are filed late.

So note that the period covered by the accounts is NOT the same as the period covered by the CT return.  OK?

David

** If you have not yet filed the necessary form at Companies House then the first accounting 'year' will have come to an end on 31 October 2012 & you cannot now change it.

In that event you need to prepare accounts for the period from the date of incorporation to 31 October 2012 & file these (full or abbreviated) at CH (& suffer a penalty from CH for late filing) & you need to prepare a CT return covering the period from commencement of trading to 31 October 2012 (& suffer a penalty from HMRC for late filing of that too).

You then have a decision to make about the period commencing 1 November 2012.  Do you want to prepare accounts to 31 March 2013, or 31 October 2013 or 31 March 2014? 

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Stepurhan
By stepurhan
03rd Mar 2014 11:25

Suggest being professional

If your dentist was thrown into prison, would you be happy with his nurse taking over the whole practice because they only had 3 1/2 years to go to retirement? Or would you rather your teeth were being dealt with by someone who knew what they are doing?

This and other questions you have posted indicate you don't know what you are doing as a principal in an accountancy firm. You risk doing untold harm to your clients accounts and tax affairs by muddling along regardless. Update courses may be miles away from you and expensive for your turnover level, but CPD is required by the professional bodies for a reason.

Assist your clients in finding a new accountant. They will presumably have to do so in a 3 1/2 years time anyway. See if you can get an accountant to take them on as a block with the reciprocal of employing you for that last time. Whilst you appear not up to operating on your own, you presumably have experience which would be valuable on top of the client fees anyway.  Continue to pass yourself off as capable of handling your clients' affairs when it would appear you are not and you may find yourself joining your erstwhile employer.

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By LittleWhiteBull
04th Mar 2014 13:34

No more answers please the problem is now sorted. I am a sole practioner with no support from partners etc.

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Replying to Donna-:
Stepurhan
By stepurhan
04th Mar 2014 14:17

Precisely my point

LittleWhiteBull wrote:
I am a sole practioner with no support from partners etc.
You are operating as a sole practitioner without any support, yet are asking questions on  here that show a lack of fairly basic knowledge a sole practitioner needs. You do not have the knowledge to operate on your own and continuing to do so will bring grief for you and your clients sooner or later. Continuing to bury your head and the sand and asking for no more answers because they are saying things that you don't want to hear is not going to change that.
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