Going Electric

Going Electric

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I've been looking at some company car strategies for a few clients lately and ultra low emission cars are seeming to make sense.

I am really considering it myself. Has anyone taken the plunge yet?

Also has anyone compared an ultra low to, say, a double cab pickup attracting van treatment?

Replies (27)

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By Wanderer
25th Jun 2015 05:05

Go one better

Don't go for an electric car, go for an electric bike & reap the health benefits as well!

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By turtleburgers
25th Jun 2015 07:43

Get a van

Much better!

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By DMGbus
25th Jun 2015 08:38

EV / PHEV / Double Cab pick up / Van

Driver / user comfort is an issue to consider, as is practicality (eg. difficulty parking a pick up in a car parking space).

The relatively high purchase prices for EV / PHEVs points towards having a van or pick up however if purchase price is the main consideration.  High mileage users might recoup some or all of the higher capital costs by reduced fuel cost per mile [An EV normally might expect to cost 3p per mile for fuel, or maybe 2p if a higher daytime unit cost electricity tariff is signed upto with low off peak rates].

London-based users would probably be advised to go for an EV / PHEV as the daily congestion charge cost is reduced to nil (instead pay a small annual registration fee).

EV = Electric vehicle (ie. battery only - limited by battery range, eg. Nissan Leaf)

PHEV = Plug in hybrid electric vehicle (ie. petrol engine for several hundred miles range plus small battery electric range for local journeys, eg. Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV)

Longer term I am hoping to see higher taxes (ie. VED, BIK, etc.) imposed on diesel vehicles because of the seriously unhealthy emissions that emanate from these vehicle such as NOx and PM and just maybe appropriate taxes will be revised upwards to discourage diesel engined vehicles in years to come.    In recent years a tunnel-vision focus on CO2 emissions from a a tax viewpoint has somewhat encouraged diesel engined vehicles to flourish to the detriment of air quality.

PS. My choice is a PHEV.

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Replying to Mr_awol:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jun 2015 09:57

Carbon Dioxide shortage

DMGbus wrote:
In recent years a tunnel-vision focus on CO2 emissions from a a tax viewpoint has somewhat encouraged diesel engined vehicles to flourish to the detriment of air quality.

We already have around 600 times more oxygen in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide.  When we've eliminated all the CO2, what are trees going to breathe ?

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Replying to zebaa:
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By [email protected]
25th Jun 2015 10:29

Are you saying

lionofludesch]</p> <p>[quote=DMGbus wrote:
In recent years a tunnel-vision focus on CO2 emissions from a a tax viewpoint has somewhat encouraged diesel engined vehicles to flourish to the detriment of air quality.

We already have around 600 times more oxygen in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide.  When we've eliminated all the CO2, what are trees going to breathe ?

[/quote

Are you saying there were no trees before humans start using fossil fuels. volcano eruptions contributes lot of co2.

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Replying to [email protected]:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Aug 2016 15:56

No, I'm saying there's [***] all Co2 in the atmosphere and it's not a problem.

Water vapour is a more likely culprit. Someone needs to invent a cloud hoover.

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Replying to zebaa:
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By Maslins
25th Jun 2015 11:47

Easily solved.

lionofludesch wrote:

DMGbus wrote:
In recent years a tunnel-vision focus on CO2 emissions from a a tax viewpoint has somewhat encouraged diesel engined vehicles to flourish to the detriment of air quality.

We already have around 600 times more oxygen in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide.  When we've eliminated all the CO2, what are trees going to breathe ?

That problem's currently being solved by us concreting over where all the trees used to be.

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RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Jun 2015 08:49

Electric

I have a client who's into this.  The first electric car he got had a stated range of 250 miles - provided you live in Norfolk.  Unfortunately, he lived in Halifax and got about 90 miles out of a fully charged battery.  Fine for short trips taking the kids to school, doing the shopping and so on. Not really going to suit a commercial traveler.

Then he got a hybrid.  Much better because you can kick in the petrol when you need it. But, obviously, using the petrol means you're not saving the planet. What you have is a very expensive petrol car.

And you need to bear in mind that filling up is not 5 mins at the garage. It's hours at a charging point.

So, depends why you want it.  But not really one to take on your holidays to Cornwall.  Unless you live in Devon.

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Replying to meadowsaw227:
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By Alan Davies
25th Jun 2015 09:04

thank you

lionofludesch wrote:

So, depends why you want it.  But not really one to take on your holidays to Cornwall.  Unless you live in Devon.

 

This is the best quote on electric vehicles I've ever seen!  Still chuckling.

I rather fancy one of the Tesla saloon cars if anyone is giving one away though.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
25th Jun 2015 11:26

VW Amorak

Is a bit more car like than other crew cabs and something I am going to consider next time as I have current car on a personal lease.

For me although a good idea the extra cost and limitations of range with electric cars just make them not practical.

In recent years fuel economy has improved massively on petrol and diesel cars so still a better option. Cars producing greater than 50 MPG are fairly common now.

If Polar Bears are unhappy with shrinking ice caps they should simply move somewhere warmer.

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By mikewade
22nd Aug 2016 14:46

Full fleet of PHEV's (11 Golf GTE's and a Mercedes 35oe) to replace 1.7l diesel astras. Golfs cost less than £25K (after grant and discount) 7% BIK for 2016/7 and improvement from under 39mpg to over 45mpg. Class 1ANICs for the whole fleet will be just over what we would have paid for 1 car!
Real world analysis of journeys is essential to check. If you have over 80 miles between charges (regularly) then from a running costs point of view then diesel is the way to go. We installed charge points at the office, and have encouraged drivers to use (often free) public charging points (the zap map app helps to locate these). 75% charge from a fast charger within 1 hour (which most meetings are at least!).
For example: -
I fully charge at home overnight (costs approx 40p) drive 22 miles to work, where I charge fully within 2.5 hours, drive home another 22 miles. With real world driving (over 8000 miles since March, including several 250+ trips) the Mercedes is averaging over 70mpg (and costs me less than £150 a month in BIK!)

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Eagle
By Financial Eagle
22nd Aug 2016 15:19

Perhaps you should start saving for the new Mercedes should they decide to build it. https://www.wired.com/2016/08/mercedes-new-concept-maybach-electric-age/

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Eagle
By Financial Eagle
22nd Aug 2016 15:36

In my view electric cars are a dead end, they will never replace the combustion engine. There are insurmountable problems with range, recharging takes hours whereas you can “recharge” a conventional vehicle in 5 minutes, and perhaps the biggest problem of all is that every 4 or 5 years you have to pay out £5,000 plus on new batteries.

With 35 million cars on the road, each with an average of 10 batteries and being changed every 5 years that would mean that an all electric fleet would need 350 million batteries, and generate 70 million scrap batteries a year.

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Replying to Financial Eagle:
Melchett
By thestudyman
23rd Aug 2016 15:31

Financial Eagle wrote:

In my view electric cars are a dead end, they will never replace the combustion engine. There are insurmountable problems with range, recharging takes hours whereas you can “recharge” a conventional vehicle in 5 minutes, and perhaps the biggest problem of all is that every 4 or 5 years you have to pay out £5,000 plus on new batteries.

With 35 million cars on the road, each with an average of 10 batteries and being changed every 5 years that would mean that an all electric fleet would need 350 million batteries, and generate 70 million scrap batteries a year.

I disagree, i think the Tesla could be a game changer.

The newest Tesla S model claims to do 300 miles on a single charge, and I believe they have been proven to cover more than any other pure electric. You can also charge for free at any of their super fast charging stations around Europe.

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Replying to thestudyman:
RLI
By lionofludesch
24th Aug 2016 15:59

Battery technology is indeed the limiting factor. Would there be so many mobile phones around if we were all carrying 1980s style back packs ?

I think not.

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Replying to Financial Eagle:
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By DMGbus
23rd Aug 2016 19:59

Proponents of electric vehicles are claiming that there is a "second life" for EV batteries - to store grid electricity and help manage peaks in electricity demand. At least one car manufacturer has stated that it has in place adequate recycling facilities to handle life expired Lithium Ion batteries.

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By justsotax
22nd Aug 2016 16:02

save the planet...buy car operated by battery (sorry 'cells')...that will need replacing in x years (and disposing of) and require electricity (% fossil fuel content?) to operate. At a guess they still run using tyres (made from derivatives of oil)...

I just wonder what the carbon footprint saving is against a 'normal' car. Smoke and mirrors I suspect...

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Replying to justsotax:
RLI
By lionofludesch
23rd Aug 2016 14:57

justsotax wrote:

save the planet...buy car operated by battery (sorry 'cells')...that will need replacing in x years (and disposing of) and require electricity (% fossil fuel content?) to operate. At a guess they still run using tyres (made from derivatives of oil)...

I just wonder what the carbon footprint saving is against a 'normal' car. Smoke and mirrors I suspect...

Cities will be better off. London particularly, which is all MPs bother about. World as a whole ? At the moment, probably worse off until the batteries get more efficient.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By DMGbus
23rd Aug 2016 19:54

There are two distinct issues with electric cars - the economics requiring tax incentives and (reason for the tax incentives) environmental benefits. Diesel cars / taxis / vans / buses are particularly bad in environmental terms because of the particulates, NOx and other emissions that are now being recognised as seriously harmful to health.
But the problem is now pressing, as new research is revealing the extent of the damage being done routinely to our health by diesel emissions, particularly the majority of the world’s population who live in cities. About 7% of deaths are caused or contributed to by air pollution, according to the World Health Organisation, and the effects on people’s quality of life is even greater. Long a silent killer, air pollution is now being recognised for its devastating effects, particularly on small children and older people.
Problem with diesel pollution is that it has grown in recent years because of a political will / encouragement to reduce CO2 emissions (which diesel cars are quite good at) - only problem is the particulates, NoX and other nasties emitted from diesel vehicle tailpipes that are killing people.

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
23rd Aug 2016 16:04

The BMW I3 looks a decent car you can them for £250 per month on a lease. Ideal if you work in a city centre as parking in electric bays are free.

the range they do would seem enough for the daily commute. They are also quite quirky looking so if wrapped in your company branding would stand out and make you appear you care about the planet.

Then get an M5 for use on the weekends.

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Replying to Glennzy:
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By DMGbus
23rd Aug 2016 19:44

I had a test drive in a BMW i3 earlier this year and found it to have several shortcomings but also some advantages over alternative cars.

Advantage: REX version and 60aH battery gives a combined potential range of over 200 miles (80 of which in petrol generator mode); excellent [small] turning circle; quick acceleration.

Disadavantages: BMW's attitude to pricing and discouraging discounting; Slow to use BMW SatNav ("dial a letter" instead of touch screen); Cramped interior; Poor access to rear seats (front seat passenger or driver has to take their seat belt off to give access to rear seat passemger!); BMW's excessive prices for upgrades / options; Poor ride quality; Very expensive replacement tyre costs (allegedly over £200 per tyre).

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Glenn Martin
By Glenn Martin
23rd Aug 2016 16:04

The BMW I3 looks a decent car you can them for £250 per month on a lease. Ideal if you work in a city centre as parking in electric bays are free.

the range they do would seem enough for the daily commute. They are also quite quirky looking so if wrapped in your company branding would stand out and make you appear you care about the planet.

Then get an M5 for use on the weekends.

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By Igor Nankun
23rd Aug 2016 16:13

Such a pleasure to witness AWeb reaching its technical zenith.

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By JDFinling
23rd Aug 2016 21:55

I bought a volvo hybrid (v60) in Dec 14 as a company car. I was able to get the £5k govt subsidy, plus capital allowance. The running costs are very low - I do all my local journeys on electric, and my electric bills have not shown any increase at all, although obviously there will be some cost, presumeably offset by savings from switching or just economising. Road tax nil, and very low personal tax. No congestion charge, although that doesn't affect me often. All told I am absolutely delighted with the whole thing.

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Eagle
By Financial Eagle
23rd Aug 2016 23:20

The government decided that petrol engines were bad for the environment (and therefore must be heavily taxed) and encouraged everyone to switch to diesel. Eventually we reached the point where just over 50% of new cars sold were diesel, and suddenly the government decides that diesel is bad for the environment (and therefore will soon be heavily taxed). Anyone want to bet what will happen when 50% of new cars sold are electric ...... ?

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Replying to Financial Eagle:
RLI
By lionofludesch
25th Aug 2016 08:37

There's no doubt that the Government cashes in on CO2, tobacco and various other things it claims to want to discourage without actually wanting to discourage them.

Where would we be without tobacco and alcohol ?

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Replying to lionofludesch:
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By Igor Nankun
25th Aug 2016 12:49

lionofludesch wrote:

Where would we be without tobacco and alcohol ?

Presumably the 4% (once 8%) contribution that they make to total tax revenues could be found amongst the taxes that make up 90% of total tax revenues.. See https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/fil...

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