Grammar, spelling and silly questions

Grammar, spelling and silly questions

Didn't find your answer?

The year has only just started, and it looks as if we will have the usual sniping at what some consider to be bad grammar and spelling and insinuations that some questions could only have been posted by someone of questionable competence or a downright idiot.

Surely the best way of being helpful to other people is to answer the question without reference to spelling and grammar, unless the meaning of the original question is too difficult to understand.

It might be amusing to poke fun at other people, but what about others looking on who think twice about posting their own query for fear of the same reaction? Several posters have recently felt the need to apologise for their poor standard of education and I feel for them.

I personally have reason to be grateful to our many experts, but do wonder whether I want to risk the sarcasm by asking another question.

Replies (51)

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By Fenella
28th Jan 2015 13:44

Good point...

We all make mistakes too....

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
25th Apr 2015 18:19

(No subject)

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Replying to RedFive:
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By HeavyMetalMike
28th Jan 2015 14:11

I believe the yoofs would say LMFHO to that Portia.

Personally I prefer to speak only to those with degrees. I am amazed at my employee's grammar and why she cannot differentiate between comma and full stops in a letter. "read that out loud does it make sense????"

 

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
28th Jan 2015 14:28

Hoist by your own petard

HeavyMetalMike wrote:

I believe the yoofs would say LMFHO to that Portia.

Personally I prefer to speak only to those with degrees. I am amazed at my employee's grammar and why she cannot differentiate between comma and full stops in a letter. "read that out loud does it make sense????"

 

I would have preferred a comma after loud.

Sorry, could not resist.

I am not serious and do not really care, my posts are littered with errors.

I have only two phobias:

1. Allocation "between" when there are more than two parties, use "amongst", please.

2. Use of may and can grates, permission and ability.

These are both examples that my Father forever corrected in my speech and like Pavlov's dog I now correct my own children without thinking; annoying for them and slightly worrying for myself, what additional traits of my Father are lurking.

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Replying to Accountant A:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
28th Jan 2015 14:52

Hume and Locke spring to mind

dstickl wrote:

DJKL wrote:

.... what additional traits of my Father are lurking.

May I suggest that you ... Just put it/them down to genetics and your genes ?

Not sure grammar is innate, I expect it is more experience/environment.

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By Tim Vane
28th Jan 2015 14:14

Standards of grammar and spelling

I am not sure I entirely agree. Do we just let spelling mistakes and grammatical errors slide by as if they were entirely unimportant?

Are we not allowed to set some minimum standards, or do we just let everything pass without a word?

I don't think I've ever pulled somebody up on spelling or grammar, but I'm usually glad when I've seen obvious howlers pointed out (usually gently), as it is nice to see some order restored to the world.

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By mrme89
28th Jan 2015 14:13

Portia, out of interest...

How is your spelling of populace coming along? ;-)

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Replying to penelope pitstop:
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By Portia Nina Levin
25th Apr 2015 18:20

(No subject)

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By kealy
28th Jan 2015 14:14

And I asked you what aisle I needed to go to!!

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By TerryD
28th Jan 2015 14:21

I agree with the sentiment expressed in your comment, but not necessarily the with the full thrust of your argument.

As regards silly questions, one man's weakness is another man's specialisation. If I were to post a question on just about any area of IT, I would undoubtedly be labelled a "numpty", or worse, by those who are experts in that field. Conversely, I might feel dismayed by those same persons' lack of knowledge in the field of financial reporting or charities regulations. So it's horses for courses and I answer what I can in my own fields of knowledge, pretty much regardless of the

On the other hand, I do attach some importance to the use of correct grammar and punctuation. I accept that this can present problems for some, particularly those for whom English is not their first language. However, English is the language that is (mostly) used in this country, and I think that the ability to communicate effectively, and accurately, can be extremely important in our job. There are plenty of resources available to anyone who feels that they need to improve in this area, so I admit that I do get disappointed sometimes at people's failings in this regard. 

 

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By Tim Vane
28th Jan 2015 14:23

On the point of just asking dumb questions, I agree entirely with Portia that if somebody purporting to act for a client in a professional capacity asks a question that demonstrates unequivocally that they are quite incompetent to do so, then they should be ridiculed in a manner that will shame them into admitting their own folly and not foisting their inadequacy on an unsuspecting public.

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By TerryD
28th Jan 2015 14:23

Grammar!

Got interrupted half way through that sentence! It can happen to anybody.......

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RLI
By lionofludesch
28th Jan 2015 14:39

Sad

Good English - no longer important, apparently, even on a professional forum.

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By User deleted
28th Jan 2015 14:40

Father with a capital F?

You're not, no you can't be, surely not ...?

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Replying to legerman:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
28th Jan 2015 14:50

Hoist by my own petard

BKD wrote:

You're not, no you can't be, surely not ...?

Told you I was in no way perfect. Then again, if a deity....

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By andy.partridge
28th Jan 2015 14:40

I'm fallible

But you have to admit that bullying and vigilantism are not admirable qualities.

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By User deleted
28th Jan 2015 16:48

Spelling wurdz & gramma ..

Surely bad spelling can be handled by spell-checkers etc. – so no real excuse for this. Unless of course one is a fan of Phonetics, which seems to be the way schools are now going. Makes the English exam so much simpler (and the marking) if one doesn’t have to deal with correct spelling – ENUF of proper English and lets go with fonetic

As for grammar (gramma), has one ever considered the impact on clients when presented with a semi-literate letter – would they be impressed with your grasp of ‘text-speak ‘or wonder if ones accounting abilities matched the spelling/grammatical prowess?

Although personally I don’t care whether less rather than few is used – but why should one not expect to be judged on communication skills?

Probably all boils down to whether it is laziness or a genuine mistake and anyway if one gets an answer to help somewhere amongst the corrections – does it really matter? Or are we all such sensitive wall flowers to take umbrage at a bit of ‘fun’; one could always respond with ‘[***] off’ which is very satisfying

On the other hand – some of the actual questions are so basic/fundamental that this could be more worrying; as eluded to by @Portia a while ago

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Replying to DuncanM:
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By neileg
28th Jan 2015 17:11

Ahem!

JC wrote:
On the other hand – some of the actual questions are so basic/fundamental that this could be more worrying; as eluded to by @Portia a while ago
Don't you mean 'alluded to'?

Grammar matters when the meaning of the statement is made uncertain or open to misinterpretation.

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Replying to DuncanM:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
28th Jan 2015 17:11

They got away

JC wrote:

 

 as eluded to by @Portia a while ago

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By TerryD
28th Jan 2015 17:15

Spell chequer

I have a spelling checker. It came with my pea sea. It plane lee marks four my revue Miss steaks aye can knot sea. Eye ran this poem threw it, Your sure reel glad two no. Its vary polished in it's weigh. My checker tolled me sew. A checker is a bless sing, It freeze yew lodes of thyme. It helps me right awl stiles two reed, And aides me when I rime. Each frays come posed up on my screen eye trussed too bee a joule. The checker pours o'er every word To cheque sum spelling rule. Bee fore a veiling checker's Hour spelling mite decline, And if we're lacks oar have a laps, We wood bee maid too wine. [***] now bee cause my spelling Is checked with such grate flair, Their are no fault's with in my cite, Of nun eye am a ware. Now spelling does knot phase me, It does knot bring a tier. My pay purrs awl due glad den With wrapped word's fare as hear. To rite with care is quite a feet Of witch won should be proud, And wee mussed dew the best wee can, Sew flaw's are knot aloud. Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays, Such soft wear four pea seas, And why eye brake in two averse Buy righting too pleas

 

 

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By TerryD
28th Jan 2015 17:15

Sorry - the above seems to have lost its breaks!

 

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By TerryD
28th Jan 2015 17:29

Of course!

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Teignmouth
By Paul Scholes
28th Jan 2015 18:00

Get a life

I've lived here for 60 years, had a good education with parents who, like you plonkers, kept on at me to speak and rite proper and I still get stiff rong.

Someone who, threw no fault of their own, was not as fortunate as me, or who does not have ing-ger-lish as their first language, may struggle to get all the Ts crossed but, if the drift of their question or comment is clear, you small-minder, little eng-er-lander, us-v-them types are the ones who deserve the contempt.

Get my drift?  init

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By User deleted
28th Jan 2015 20:04

Yet again ...

.

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By JimH
28th Jan 2015 20:47

You knew what you were doing ...
Moonbeam, unleashing the silly season brigade at this stage in January (or, indeed, most Friday afternoons). And it was a deliberate 'let's get it started' post? Heaven help anyone thin skinned, or having a wobbly moment, who really did want to gently remind everyone to play nice in the playground.

Red rag: so I woke up this morning wondering how the threads were going to pan out these next few days with the how-witty-can-we-get-banter from the don't care for others' feelings 'tough love' band. But nevertheless some of you continue to share great helpful advice. Thank you.

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By JSK
28th Jan 2015 21:22

BKD

I don't get you. What is it you are saying. Not only on this thread but other threads. 

Please tell me what is your point. 

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By ShirleyM
28th Jan 2015 21:41

BKD ....

... is a man of few words. :)

He says what he needs to in as few words as possible. Is that a problem?

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By JSK
28th Jan 2015 21:46

Not a problem. I have no idea what he is saying. Is that a problem?

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By ShirleyM
28th Jan 2015 21:54

Possibly ...

... but only if you expect BKD to explain himself to you. You comment came across as a criticism, rather than a friendly request, but I'm sure it wasn't intended that way.

Maybe ... just maybe ... (and this is pure guesswork) he suspects a banned member has returned? It happens frequently on AWeb!

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By JSK
28th Jan 2015 22:02

my suggestion

Leave it. Why bother. Do something more impt with time. 

Are a spokesperson  for BKD? Can't he/she speak for themselves?

 

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Replying to lionofludesch:
By mrme89
29th Jan 2015 12:47

.

JSK wrote:

Leave it. Why bother. Do something more impt with time. 

Are a spokesperson  for BKD? Can't he/she speak for themselves?

 

 

Oh Firsty, you just can't help yourself. 

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By ShirleyM
28th Jan 2015 22:10

Oops

He's a pal. Am I not allowed to defend my pal from unjust criticism?

Oh no ... forget that ... BKD ... you're on your own, else I'll get accused of the gang thing again.

(Private joke!).

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By JSK
28th Jan 2015 22:12

?

Don't get you. 

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By I'msorryIhaven'taclue
29th Jan 2015 01:37

Polytecknic Degrees

I blame Polytechnic "Universities" for churning out nitwits post-1992. IMHO anyone with a degree from a poly-uni is a good egg; unless of course they actually believe they have a university degree. Which of course they haven't: at best they have the equivalent of a HND; moreover, they've been mugged into paying large sums for it.

The acid test is of course to be able to handle the rudiments of English: grammar aside, is one able to structure a sentence for sensibilty? Avoid ambiguity? Make sense?

Do you know your past-paticiple from a hole in the ground? If not, you're not alone. I recently happened on a client-firm with 9 Oxbridge graduates (actally 8; the 9th was a Harvard graduare) whose £100 an hour partners' website boasted of their expertise and many years of practicing.

Straw poll: what would you have charged to put their (10 page) website to rights for grammatical errors and other howlers? Clue: this is their shop window; and their USP is they're all Oxbridge graduates (although clearly there's not an English degree in sight).

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Replying to SteveHa:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
29th Jan 2015 11:27

The fault, dear X, lies not in our colleges ,but in our schools.

[quote=I'msorryIhaven'taclue]

I blame Polytechnic "Universities" for churning out nitwits post-1992. IMHO anyone with a degree from a poly-uni is a good egg; unless of course they actually believe they have a university degree. Which of course they haven't: at best they have the equivalent of a HND; moreover, they've been mugged into paying large sums for it.

[/quote

Probably a repeated argument

There were possibly similar conversations going on in the 19th century amongst Oxford, Cambridge, St Andrews, Aberdeen, Glasgow and Edinburgh about that noveau university being set up at Durham etc

I am more than happy to accept the argument that older universities are superior (I went to two of the six  in my above list) however I think you have to keep an open mind.

My neighbour lectures at Edinburgh and when we get to exam time, and he has been marking scripts for hours, he has been known to pop out to the garden for a break and vent his spleen across the wall regarding the low quality of his students, despairing that after four years they cannot compose an essay but instead answer questions by means of "memory dump" (Write everything they can possibly remember about the subject in no particular order and with no structure.)

The fault possibly lies further down the chain of education within the schools, where a fair number of the teachers appear to struggle with English.If you have children at school, read the letters etc you receive from the school and spot the errors; my children's schools used to send home newsletters littered with errors.

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By ShirleyM
29th Jan 2015 06:40

I wish I had good grammar

My spelling isn't bad, apart from the odd typo, but it's a long time since I was at school. I've managed so far, so see no need to study further.

I think so far as accountancy is concerned, so long as the message is clear and understood then their is little damage to be done. I often wondered how pharmacists managed with the hand-written prescriptions (which were totally illegible). I wonder how many mistakes were made because of it.

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Replying to WhichTyler:
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By dstickl
29th Jan 2015 15:49

How will we know?

ShirleyM wrote:

... I wonder how many mistakes were made because of it.

Dead men tell no tales ...

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By JSK
29th Jan 2015 08:28

Why the fuss

As long as the message is understood, all okay. 

Paul Scholes puts it well. 

 

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By User deleted
29th Jan 2015 09:36

.

I have my reasons for posting what I did, none of which reasons I feel inclinded to discuss with anyone here.

If certain individuals interpret my comments as an accusation of some sort, so be it (as an aside, it is perfectly reasonable, should the occasion arise, for someone to air their suspicions based on evidence rather than absolute proof. That is how our system works - "proof" is required only when someone decides to take any action).

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By MJShone
29th Jan 2015 09:15

Grammar

My Grammar is great, but my Grampa's not in very good health.

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By jndavs
29th Jan 2015 13:42

Grammar - a guide
Replace all occurences of the word 'said' with 'was like', commas with 'you know what I mean' and full stops with 'innit'. Then you will be understood by all.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
paddle steamer
By DJKL
29th Jan 2015 11:25

Like, like, like, like,like,like, like,like,like.....

jndavs wrote:
Replace all occurences os the word 'said' with 'was like', commas with 'you know what I mean' and full stops with 'innit'. Then you will be understood by all.

I have still to really understand the nuanced use of "was like" as against  using "I'm like" within sentence structure.

I think "was like" is used within the past tense whereas " I'm like" seems to  imply more present tense usage but is often used in a past tense context when describing the previous evening. However there is often little consistency of usage from person to person, in fact sometimes a speaker is not consistent from sentence (phrase is possibly often a better descriptive) to sentence. 

It really does get confusing as "was like" can also interchange with "he's like" and "she's like" which  do appear more akin to present tense yet are also used in past tense context. They appear interchangeable with  past tense "was like", it is as if "he's like" actually means "he was like" and also "he is like"

English is turning into a language without tenses.

 

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By Anne Robinson
29th Jan 2015 11:00

"laziness or a genuine mistake" no excuse for the first.
I blame mobile phones and text speak (how many of us oldies on here spend ages typing out full messages when we text)
A few years ago I would have been worried that some of our posters communication with government bodies (especially HMRC) would have put them in a very poor light but having received some real clinker letters from HMRC I now think that this generation are able to understand each other perfectly.
I have to grit my teeth when a poster opens the question with So ……..
What the Dickens does that mean?
Grumpy old woman with only 3 days to go.

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By Anne Robinson
29th Jan 2015 13:18

Just read another post which reminds me of another teeth clencher -
the word “right” at the end of a question – whilst this may, just may, be acceptable in the spoken word it is just plain wrong when in a sentence.

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Replying to The Dullard:
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By spidersong
29th Jan 2015 14:00

Is that right?

Anne Robinson wrote:
Just read another post which reminds me of another teeth clencher - the word “right” at the end of a question – whilst this may, just may, be acceptable in the spoken word it is just plain wrong when in a sentence.

Often I feel I should castigate a poster for an error in grammar or clarity, but I always ask myself a simple question "have I the right?". And I remember the errors, some through speed and lack of proofing, within my own posts.

I also ask my self a further question "is it right to begin a sentence with a conjunction?" (sometimes I ask myself, "what's the capital of Peru?", or "why is a raven like a writing desk?", but that's just me.)

Anyway I'll assume that what gets your teeth clenching is not merely the use of right at the end of a question, but the use of right to convert a statement into a query, right?

Also since a sentence is a linguistic construct, neither specific to written nor verbal communication, I'll further assume you meant "written sentence".

I'll look forward to someone informing me of the correct treatment of the question mark when you quote a question and whether I should have used those full stops.

Or maybe I should just observe that the internet is full of errors in grammar, and gammar [***]'s thereby invoking Godwin's Law and drawing a line under it all.

 

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Portia profile image
By Portia Nina Levin
25th Apr 2015 18:22

(No subject)

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By spidersong
29th Jan 2015 14:07

Skitt's law

A gammar [***] is an incidence of Skitt's Law, which states that any post correcting an error in a prior post will itself contain at least one error.

As for the other I'm afraid you can't expect a proper answer from me, the Mad Hatter, or Lewis Carroll, which is why I often ponder it.

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By User deleted
29th Jan 2015 14:21

Ah but...

Ah but, if you didn't have a kind and generous person telling you what your mistake was, then you'd never be able to correct it in future. Having said that I wouldn't point out every spelling or grammar mistake that I spotted (too busy having to spell-check my own typing at the moment as the letters keep jumbling themselves up somewhere between my brain and my finger), but I'd be inwardly groaning if there were a lot (i.e. not just a slip).

I am, however, all for pointing out to utter numpties that they should perhaps consider alternative employment when the questions they're asking are so basic (or so totally unethical) as to be embarrassing. And again, I'm not talking about those Friday afternoon, it's been a long week and I can't decide if I'm going bonkers, questions. 

And sarcasm, when properly employed, can provide hours of entertainment. Laughter is so important for good health, and it would be thoughtless to withhold it from the community. 

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Replying to Tax Dragon:
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By BroadheadAccountants
29th Jan 2015 17:52

Friday

Flash Gordon wrote:

I'm not talking about those Friday afternoon, it's been a long week and I can't decide if I'm going bonkers, questions. 

I'll hold off on my question until Friday afternoon.

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