Have you been barred from RTI?

Have you been barred from RTI?

Didn't find your answer?

While researching my round-up of RTI teething troubles this week, I was told by Peter Prater at payroll software developer Qtac that hundreds of his customers had their first RTI submissions rejected, with the message, "You have not been invited to make this kind of submission."

As we should all know by now, unless you are a large organisation that has been given a later go-live date, everyone is assumed to have been invited into RTI from 6 April - even if not specifically invited by RTI.

Have you experienced this situation too?

I'm checking on the situation with HMRC this morning, and it always helps to give them tangible evidence.

Prater, meanwhile, is "furious" and is calling on HMRC chief executive Lin Homer to resign because of the RTI software upgrade debacle.

Replies (18)

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By mikeyban
11th Apr 2013 21:28

Not had this but unable to file a P35 because we opened a scheme in Feb by telephone and was invited to join client in RTI early which was declined. Operative didn't obviously follow our instruction and now P35 rejected.

I tried to get onto online services and it was jammed. Took about 40 mins to get through and the relevant box will be untucked in near future (hopefully before 19th May).

Further insult is that my 64-8 is not yet on screen and refused to speak to me at start.

Poor man told me off the record that the system is on its knees.

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By StevenGibson
12th Apr 2013 11:48

Yes, had exactly that

I have tried to file several payroll related submissions over the last few days.

A couple have gone without a hitch, 1 has come back with exactly as described in the OP and I have been given the helpful advice to ring the helpline, which is of course jammed. Another problem occurred trying to submit a P46 for an employee who started and was paid in the last week of 2012/13, which has failed as the employer has not been invited to RTI (I wasn't trying to sumbit under RTI!). 

 

 

 

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By pressco
12th Apr 2013 12:04

No problems with my QTAC

All my RTI reports so far have gone in ok.

I have never had any problems with QTAC.

Any glitches have always been fixed by them quickly and without any fuss.

However, I fear I may have spoken too soon.........................................

 

 

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John Stokdyk, AccountingWEB head of insight
By John Stokdyk
12th Apr 2013 13:33

Not Qtac's fault

The company is irate about the situation, with MD Peter Prater calling for heads to roll at HMRC.

"I am furious, because my helpline staff are having to take calls that have been caused by HMRC incompetence," he told me for our RTI roll-out round-up this week.

I asked HMRC about the situation, and a spokesman replied: "Most of the cases we have seen where a scheme received a RTI rejection message for a real time submission were correct. Often this was because the employer had at least one scheme with more than 5000+ employees. Where this was the case, in agreement with the employer, all the schemes had been given the same specified mandation date. This was to prevent the situation where an employer was reporting some employees in real time and not others.

"However, we are aware that a small number of submissions were rejected when a mandation date should have been set. We are investigating, but so far, these appear to be a very small number of isolated cases."

Thanks for all your comments so far. I posted this query to find out how widespread the problem was - so all your feedback is useful. I'll be doing a follow-up piece shortly based on what I can uncover.

So far, it's beginning to look to me like some payroll bureaux handling lots of smaller schemes may have been designated as large employers without being made aware of it (and even though they're handling payroll schemes for smaller organisations).

There has been a similar lack of communication about recently started schemes that have found themselves in the RTI pilot, even when they specifically asked not to be.

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By SecretariuS
12th Apr 2013 14:04

RTI Submissions

 I have just filed EAS for a client at 13.40 and received successful acknowledgement which said it was filed at 12.40!!  My computers automatically update for BST. It is unbelievable that HMRC software has not managed to incorporate the correct time.  That said, to date I have not had any problems filing P35s, CT 600s and SAs on line over the years, so they can't be all bad. (use Sage for Payroll and Keytime for SA and CT 600)

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Replying to stepurhan:
Out of my mind
By runningmate
12th Apr 2013 15:33

Universal Time Clock

SecretariuS wrote:

 I have just filed EAS for a client at 13.40 and received successful acknowledgement which said it was filed at 12.40!! 

HMRC computers refer to time in UTC (i.e. GMT).

This is not an error - it is the way it is designed to work.

RM

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By songb1rd
12th Apr 2013 14:17

You have not been invited to make this kind of submission

I've received this message for one of my client's first FPS.  It's a one-man company, and I would add that the first FPS for all my other one-man company clients have gone through without a hitch.

 

I did manage to actually speak to someone on Tuesday at the Online Services Helpline (after over twenty minutes wait), and actually obtained a Case Number and an assurance that someone would return my call when the problem's been looked at, understood, and sorted...

I've tried phoning back several times this week, but my patience tends to wain after thirty minutes waiting time, so no concrete progress as yet.  The lady I spoke to on Tuesday told me she'd only been working there for three days, and couldn't see how to fix the problem there and then...

...though later, when I read about this problem on Accountingweb, I couldn't help but kick myself!  Is it true that all they need to do at their end is "check (or "uncheck") a box, whatever...   

 

 

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By lyntonacc
12th Apr 2013 14:51

RTI or RTS - Return to Sender

 

We set up the payroll for a new Ltd company client as from 01.01.2013. We use Sage and filed the P46 online successfully.

However, filing 2012/13 P35 was unsuccessful. Sage submision log is 7816 - 'This End of Year cannot be accepted as the employer has been invited to join RTI and the return is within or after the tax year they were invited.'

We thought RTI starts from 2013/14 or are we losing our bearings?

Elvis please help with your song!

 

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Replying to johngroganjga:
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By angusbruce
12th Apr 2013 21:43

New Employers automatically RTI

I had the same problem with two of my new payrolls, even though I asked not to.  Ring the helpline and they can put the RTI ready date to 6th April.  Then all you have to do is wait a couple of days and you will be able to resubmit.

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Replying to lionofludesch:
Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
12th Apr 2013 22:20

Opposite problem

.

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By simon palmer
12th Apr 2013 16:49

Qtac Support

Many Thanks Pressco for your kind words, as always If any QTAC customer has any issues with their Payroll Software, our dedicated, qualified and experienced staff are just at the end of the phone. 

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By User deleted
12th Apr 2013 17:11

No worries here

But then I use Moneysoft :)

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By tonymorris2010
12th Apr 2013 18:40

RTI Submissions
I have 4 Clients where I manage their Payroll. 3 on Sage instant payroll and 1 on Sage payroll 50. No problems so far. All EAS's went through with no problem and so did the FPS's. Despite being a Sage fan I have to say, Sage software is easy to use and their support is second to none.

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Tom McClelland
By TomMcClelland
12th Apr 2013 18:58

We've had a lot of these. Here is HMRC's commentary:

HMRC wrote:
We are getting a few of these queries where the RTI signal has not been set correctly.  We are working with the migration team to resolve this but, in the short term, could you please ask any customers affected to phone the Employer Helpline on 08457 143 143.  They should be able to set the required signal enabling your clients to file RTI submissions.
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By songb1rd
13th Apr 2013 15:31

Problem pinpointed (though not yet resolved)

Acting on Tom McClelland's advice, viz. 

HMRC wrote:We are getting a few of these queries where the RTI signal has not been set correctly.  We are working with the migration team to resolve this but, in the short term, could you please ask any customers affected to phone the Employer Helpline on 08457 143 143.  They should be able to set the required signal enabling your clients to file RTI submissions.

 

I spoke to someone this morning on 08457 143 143, and learned that in my client's case, the reason for the message "You have not been invited to make this kind of submission" is because their PAYE scheme was closed, in or around November 2012. Neither I nor my client received any notice of this.

The reason for closing it down was that "there had been no recent activity(!)" and it was all to do with pre-RTI tidying-up.  True, no tax nor NI has (ever) been paid, but HMRC have been notified each quarter for years that no remittance is due.

Needless to say, other clients - eg one-man companies with director earning sufficiently low salary - have not had their PAYE schemes closed down.

I was told that someone would phone me back by 4 May with a view to opening a new PAYE scheme, whilst meanwhile the first FPS remains unsubmittable.

To be fair, later in the call, a supervisor assured me that someone would call me back "within twenty-four working hours (sic)".  That's a new one on me...

...and open to some interpretation.

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By taxhound
15th Apr 2013 18:50

Saving time and money....

I have had one of these today  (sorry Flash - I use moneysoft, but I am not blaming them in the least).  I am xxxxxx if I am going to spend 30 minutes on hold to their "help" desk which can't cope at the moment, (whilst paying via the 0845 number for the privilege) to sort out their mess from a ridiculous system that they have imposed on us without checking it properly first.  It can wait for a while until they have calmed down at their end and I have calmed down too.  I have the reject notice which shows I tried and their are no penalties at the moment.

Saving time and money - I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

 

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By iainhunneybell
05th May 2013 12:08

Me too!

I have been trying to file first an Employer Alignment, then an FPS and also a EPS. They are nil filings are the company is still in start-up (hence the apparent need for an EPS as well as FPS). Previously I would notify of nil payment via the old (simple) online form...now gone.

Reading this it makes me wonder if the PAYE scheme has been closed down. Certanily, through all 2012/13 there was nil filings and so maybe my need for RTI software to file nil amounts has gone...which would be a small blessing. Of course I don't know this as I've not been told the scheme has been closed down, and I'm sure HMRC will be only too pleased to chase me for non-compliance should the scheme in fact still be open. Anyway, all three filesing (Alignment, FPS, EPS) return the same error.

I did find some advise at http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/payerti/troubleshoot/bpt-error-messages.htm which although referring to Basic PAYE Tools is still the same error message coming back from HMRC. This suggests calling 0300 200 3200, but that disconnects on dialing!

Oh well, I guess the joy of hanging on the 0845 number mentioned above here lies in store for me...

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By carnmores
05th May 2013 18:21

dont you just love the word

INVITE

PS and in answer to your question @JS , IF ONLY !

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